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You don’t have a contract until it is accepted = exchanged. So putting a time limit on it may speed things up.
Terryw
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Originally posted by salocker:Thanks for all your comments.
I have this in mind to invest in property, is it feasible?
1) Buy Property value of $500k using a HDT structure – 500 Units
2) Unit Holders as follows- SMSF 100 Units, Mum & Dad 400 Units
3) Bank Loan for Mum & Dad for $400kWith point 2, does it pass the arms length test?
With point 3, will the lenders loan mum & dad(highest income) $400k, with security over the property purchased for $500k?
Also due to the security over the property will this break the SMSF rules?I realise that I do need to meet a professional with this but would be grateful for initial feedback. Also any alternate ways to do this then pls advise.
Thanks
SalockerHi Salocker
I know next to nothing about super funds and their regulations, but would think if you owned the superfund and the trust, it would be too close a relationship.
Maybe if you can maybe partner up with some other family, your SMSF owns units of their Trust and their SMSF owns units of your Trust.
A lender would lend, normally, $400,000 to purchase units using a $500,000 property as security, but having a superfund may scare them off – if they read the deed. Maybe the units could be transfer to the superfund later on??
I am not sure security over the property would be breaking the super rules as the superfund would only own income producing units – not the property.
But I am guessing all the above. I don’t know the rules and haven’t looked into them – there are too many other things to look at first!
Terryw
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Look at a discretionary trust too – for asset protection and flexibility.
Terryw
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These days I recommend people avoid the smaller lenders such as the various originators where possible. This is because , as Simon mentioned, all of their loans are mortgage insured. Even if you the client do not pay the fee or know about it, they are still mortgage insured in the background.
Thats usually not a problem if you are buying one or two properties. But if you are planning on buying more down the track, then this will greatly effect you.
eg. say you get a $100,000 loan with XX on a full doc basis. You then have reached your borrowing capacity due to low income. If you have plenty of equity and wish to go for a No Doc with YY, you may not be able to get approval. XX may use the same LMI as YY. If teh LMI company knows you cannot afford the repayments based on the income you declared initially, they are not going to pass you, and your loan will be rejected.
Terryw
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CT you would have to talk to your lawyer about that.
Terryw
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Hi
I think hybrids are better for 2 reasons.
1) allows negative gearing
2) refinancing principle.But hybrids are less effective in the area of asset protection. This is because the units are property. If the unit holder is sued, these units could be at risk. However, a well drafted deed will allow the trustee to bypass distributing income to the unit holder. But it can complicate things.
I am not an accountant, but think, the refinancing principle allows the trust to borrow to buy back the units, and this may enable deductible debt to be converted into deductible. So even if you are not negative gearing a hybrid may still be useful.
Terryw
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Capital growth is what will make you rich. Don’t sacrifice this for a few extra dollars in rent.
Terryw
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Marc, I agree, but you never know how things will change in the future, so best to prepare just in case.
Terryw
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It could take a while.
If they fail to settle, I guess you would issue a statement of claim. You have to go to court, fill out some forms, and have them served. They will be notified to attend court. If they don’t attend, you could get a default judgment. If they do attend, then the court officer will ask if you have settled the matter? If no, they may say go outside and talk about it. If not resolved, then they will list the matter to be heard on a future date. This may be another month later. You will be asked how many witnesses will be called etc. I have sued someone, but it never went this far, so not sure what happens next. I think you turn up on the day, and you present your case, and they present theirs. You may then get a decision = a Judgment.
Even if you are able to get a judgment, then you need to enforce it. They may not pay you, so then you have to take further action including applying for the sheriff to go and seize their goods or garnish their wages etc. You can get them into the court and get them to list their assets too – so you know if they can pay and possibly what you can go for. This is called an examination summons.
If the judgment debt is over a certain amount, I think $2000, you can apply to have them bankrupt. They must respond to the notice of bankruptcy within 28 days. Usually this jolts people into paying.
Costs will depend on how far it goes. Issuing a Statement of liquidated claim costs around $150. But this also depends on how large the debt is. To serve a document can cost from around $20 to $100. You can actually go to court on your own. No real need for a solicitor. Just read up on it, and maybe attend a few beforehand to know the procedure.
And, if you don’t know where they are located, there may be expenses in finding them as if required (sometimes) to serve documents on them. eg. Notice of Bankruptcy has to be served to the actual person.
If they resist, the whole thing could take up to a year – especially if they use delaying tactics. Things usually never get this far, as most would be concerned about rising legal costs and losing and being forced to pay the other parties costs. So many give in and make an offer early on.
What state are you in? This is what happens in NSW, other states may be slightly different.
I would suggest you get a book on contract law (look for stuff in second hand uni bookshops) and look at local court websites etc.
Terryw
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Becareful with submitting written offers. If your offer is accepted, you could be in a binding contract. This can happen whether you use a formal contract or the back of an envelope.
Terryw
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You probably have a binding contract if you have gone that far, so the ball is in your court.
I think you have the following options:
a) You can let me off without penalty, or b) let them off with an agreed amount or c) you can insist they settle as per the contract. If they fail to settle you can sue them for breaching the contract. You had better check with your solicitor. Not sure how much you could claim if suing but you should be able to at least claim for all the expenses incurred.Good luck and let us know what happens please.
Terryw
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I agree with Richard!
Terryw
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Macquarie are good, but they are securitised lenders which means all over their loans are mortgage insured. even LVRs of 1%. Macquarie usually pay the LMI so the client may not realise.
If you wish or need to start using No Doc loans you have to plan ahead. Virtually all No Doc (and Low Doc) loans are mortgage insured, even the ones with the big banks. There are only 2 major LMI companies and they have restrictions on how much they will lend. They also have policies on not approving your No Doc loans if they know your income and you cannot service. eg. If you declare a $50,000 income with, say, Macquarie on a full doc loan application, then go to RAMS and try to get a No Doc loan, you don’t have to give your income details. But if you actually need $51,000 income to service, the RAMS mortgage insurer maybe the same as the one with Macquarie, and they will know your income and they will have to decline your loan because they know you cannot service.
So that is why I suggest using the big banks first where possible. Try to avoid LMI. Then when you hit the limit, start to use No/Low Doc loans. If you were to do this, start borrowing in one name only (not jointly with a partner). This will greatly improve your borrowing ability.
Terryw
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Originally posted by Mortgage Hunter:Originally posted by Dougiejg:Mortgage Hunter
What do you think the disadvantages might be?I can see a risk of disagreement between members down the track.
This could damage friendships.
Always a risk of losing money, but that is in any investing.
Certainly there is a great deal for us to learn, and that is scary in a way, but not really a disadvantage.I am trying to think of the downside, but that is all I have so far. That is why I put this post up – to get a dose of reality check to mix with my enthusiasm. So please tell me the negatives that you can think of.
APerry
I tried that link, but it says page not available. Thanks for your email as well.He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. – Jim Elliot
Glad you are looking at both sides.
One area, and it was mentioned, is borrowing. If you all go on the loan together then you will all be responsible for the whole debt individually. An example might help here.
If five people borrow $500K for an IP.
Then you go to buy a home. Your lender will see you as already having a $500K debt. Not your $100K share but the whole debt. If all your four mates are unemployed then you will have to meet the repayments.
Please see a cluey accountant and look at more sophisticated ownership vehilcles. Will be more expensive but if something goes wrong it may save you a fortune.
I am personally not a fan of syndicates. I think a club where you pooled info but bought individually would be safer for you all.
Sorry to be a wet blanket [blush2]
Cheers,
Simon Macks
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0425 228 985Comments may not be relevant to individual circumstances. If you intend making any investment, financial or taxation decision you should consult a professional adviser.
And to make matters worse, if one of those five goes for a loan later on, one another property in just their name, the new lender will assess them on only their share of rental income for the syndicate property. ie total debt, but only 1/5 of the income.
Terryw
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Originally posted by Terryw:Originally posted by Bo_D_:hey kuade,
you might be better off having the “negatively geared property” in you name. You’ll be on a much higher tax rate. Means you’ll get to claim a bigger percentage on the deductions. (well thats my understanding of it anyway) and if it was a pos geared investment you’d want it in your wifes name as she’ll pay less tax on the money you make.
As for the tax calc. You’ve made a loss of $13 602 from the IP. So im guessing that’ll be your deduction mate. But it depends what percentage of the IP you own. Dont forget depreciation as well, its a good interest free loan in a way.
Bo, that may save a few hundred or maybe even thousand of dollars now, but could cost dearly later on.
I have a mate (just one[blush2]) that is earning $100K pa, while his wife doesn’t earn a cent. He bought a property in Perth 2 years ago, and put it in his name to save tax. He just sold it and has a $150,000 capital gain. But guess what, this all (after the discount) has to go to him. His poor old wife can get nothing, so he has to pay a fortune in extra tax.
At the time I advised him to look at using a hybrid trust. He didn’t listen! It could have saved him around $46,000 in tax!
Terryw
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Just send me a blank email, with “subscribe†in subject line.And I should add, to make it even better, with a hybrid trust, my mate still could have claimed all the interest against his own income.
Terryw
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The person possibly suggested a LOC to enable paying interest on the investment with money from the LOC.
If you wish to extend your borrowing capacity as far as possible, I would be inclined to suggest you keep away from the likes of Macquarie for now. Try and stay with the major banks at 80% or less. Avoid the mortgage insurance companies altogether.
Try to borrow in single names rather than joint if possible. This will preserve and extend your No Doc borrowing capacity for later on if you hit your serviceability limit.
With fixed loans it is impossible to tell you in advance what the exit fees will be. It will depend on the rates at the time you exit. If the rates are higher, the bank will not lose out, so the exit will be low or possibly nil. This is because they can make more money by lending the money out at a higher rate after you pay back you loan.
But if rates have dropped, you could be up for highish exit fees, depending on how far the rates have dropped. So what you save on interest could all be eaten up. eg. I once sold a property that had a fixed loan, my exit fee was around $2000 on a $90,000 loan.
Terryw
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Originally posted by Bo_D_:hey kuade,
you might be better off having the “negatively geared property” in you name. You’ll be on a much higher tax rate. Means you’ll get to claim a bigger percentage on the deductions. (well thats my understanding of it anyway) and if it was a pos geared investment you’d want it in your wifes name as she’ll pay less tax on the money you make.
As for the tax calc. You’ve made a loss of $13 602 from the IP. So im guessing that’ll be your deduction mate. But it depends what percentage of the IP you own. Dont forget depreciation as well, its a good interest free loan in a way.
Bo, that may save a few hundred or maybe even thousand of dollars now, but could cost dearly later on.
I have a mate (just one[blush2]) that is earning $100K pa, while his wife doesn’t earn a cent. He bought a property in Perth 2 years ago, and put it in his name to save tax. He just sold it and has a $150,000 capital gain. But guess what, this all (after the discount) has to go to him. His poor old wife can get nothing, so he has to pay a fortune in extra tax.
At the time I advised him to look at using a hybrid trust. He didn’t listen! It could have saved him around $46,000 in tax!
Terryw
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i noticed there is a full stop at the end. Try:
Terryw
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You generally pay when complete, which may be years down the track.
Terryw
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Bluemist
It may be better long term to sell your existing property and buy a new one to live in. Just work out how much extra tax you would be paying, and interest on your new loan (if you will need one) and compare this to the selling costs (agents fees legals, stamp duty etc).
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