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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    F

    thats correct if you go to 80%.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Hi F

    I am not a tax agent, but ..

    I beleive the interest on any borrowings for investment purposes should be deductible. So this should include interest on the portion borrowed to cover stamp duty and borrowing costs.

    The borrowing costs themselves could be claimed over 5 years.

    The stamp duty etc could not be claimed now as they are purchase costs and considered capital in nature. So these would be claimed against CGT if the place is sold.

    If you borrow to make repairs, then the interest should be claimable. The repairs may also be claimable, depending on the nature. If it is an improvement, it may only be able to be depreciated over a certain number of years depending on whether it is considered part of the house (2.5% over 40 years) or a fixture (much faster depedning on the item, maybe 20% over 5 years).

    I think borrowing a bit extra for unforeseen stuff is a bit of a grey area. It is like borrowing to make repayments, and capitalisation of interest. previously I would have thought this was ok. But in Dec the ATO issued a ruling saying it was acceptable, but removed it about a week later. So even they are confused.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Thanks DIY

    In that case, Casper could move out of the existing house and rent it without CGT consequences. He could then buy another house to live in and this could be classed as his main residence.

    Using the tax rules to your advantage, he could buy a new place, move in briefly, establish it as his main residence and then move back to the old place. The new residence should be CGT free for up to 6 years.

    Casper could also run the business from his home without affecting the CGT exemption on this property.

    Casper, with a company, you don’t really get asset protection, but you do get limited liability. So if the company is sued, you are generally safe – but not always.

    I think you should always run a business through a company for this reason. And have the shares owned by a discretionary Trust. Don’t worry about tax too much. The company may have to pay 30% on all income, but it could pay you wages so you pay less than the 30%. Wages are an expense to the company, so in the early days it may not have any profit to pay tax on.

    Please check all this with an accountant, I am not one.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    What you could do is live in the property initially, then your friend could rent it from you. You can then claim the expenses against your income, ie negative gear, and you may be able to keep it CGT free under s118-145 of the Income Tax Assessment Act.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    This is a complex area of tax. If they are subdividing their main residence, then there may be CGT when they sell it to you. Or gift it; stamp duty and CGT is calculated at market rates. I am not sure if there is a way around it, but there may be if the purchased the land prior to the introduction of CGT.

    It may also be better if they just keep the land in their names and you do some sort of joint venture.

    So you should consult a tax specialist.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Yes. Because once you pay down a loan, if you redraw the money this is considered new borrowings and the deductibility of interest will depend on what you use the money for.

    eg. You want to use the funds for a deposit on your own home.

    And if you have no PPOR, why not move into your rental property intitially and take advantage of the tax laws to have it classed as your main residence. You can then move out and claim the interest and still be able to sell without incurring CGT.

    You just have to know the rules and work around then.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    NO, I don’t think you can claim costs such as these up front before you have settled. They can be claimed later if you ever sell the property. Check with your accountant.

    If you are using a trust or are in the business of property investing, it may be a different story.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Hi
    Do you have a loan on your own home? If so, all spare cash should be going onto that loan.

    If not, then I would be inclined to borrow as much as possible and put any spare cash in a 100% offset account. You will get the same savings without the adverse tax consequences of paying down a loan.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Dacium

    Never?

    What about if someone were to live in their rental property briefly, then rent it out and they rented somewhere else. They could claim the CGT exemption and still get the tax benefits of negative gearing their main residence while paying lower rent. In my calculations this person would be ahead in early years. Later on as rents rise the deductions will decrease, and then it will be time to move back home.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Contact the Tenant’s Union NSW
    http://www.tenants.org.au/

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Originally posted by thai:

    I would like to clarify “other beneficaries” as being family members.

    Hi Thai

    Not sure what you mean here?

    The beneficiaries of a trust usually include the principle’s extended family members include those yet to be born or yet to be married into the family, other companies and trusts which you are involved in etc.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You can onsell the place like a normal sale. But I beleive the vendor must allow this in their contract with you.

    Settlement cannot occur until the place is complete, so your deposit will be tied up, and the deposit you receive will also be tied up until then. Also, the profit will be tied up too.

    Think of the risks involved such as the property not going up in value, or even decreasing.

    Watch out for sunset clauses. Some contracts have a clause where if the project is not complete in XXmonths, then either party can pull out. Some developers deliberately go slow if they know the market has risen. They then get the property back by rescinding yours and resell at a higher price to someone else.

    And think about the opportunity costs. You will have your deposit tied up for 2 years and you will be thinking about qualifying for finance for 2 years, so this may mean you miss out on a few deals in the mean time.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Originally posted by thai:

    I have another question and sorry for rambling.
    If the unit holders in the future decides to sell back the units to the trust.
    Would the unit be sold at the same price?
    If there was CG in the IPs can the trust distibute the funds to other beneficaries or only to the initial unit holders.?

    That is another area of dispute. And it would depend on the drafting of your deed.

    I would say the units would have to increase in value as the proeprty increases. If not, then there would be no commercial point in buying them. If there is no commercial reason then the ATO may consider it a scheme designed soley to reduce income tax.

    There are different ways to value the units. Which way you use may also be stipulated in your deed. One way is for the units to increase in value in line with the property. Another is to use the cashflow from them to value them, Net Present Value I think it is called.

    Once the units are sold back, the trust should behave as a normal discretionary trust and then the income and CG can be distributed to the wide class of beneificiaries at the trustee’s discretion.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Hi Thai

    With a HDT, it is the trustee that owns the property. The unit holders own units in the trust. If the unit holders borrow to buy their units, they may be able to claim the interest on their personal income. But it seems this is rather uncertain at the moment.

    I think the unit holders will be able to claim the whole of the interest (subject to the uncertainty with the ATO). To justify their interest claims they must get an income from the trust. This may be in proportion to the value of the units compared to the asset. This would change over time too I suspect.

    But with the other expenses, these are expenses of the trust. It is the trust that claims depreciation, land tax etc. These deductions are taken away from the rent. Because the trust is not paying interest it should have a profit and it is this profit that is distributed to the unit holders and/or beneficiaries.

    (I am not an accountant nor do i use a HDT, this is my understanding of what happens and may be wrong)

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    There are a whole range of concessions available for businesses on their sale. Its not something I have looked into, but there is a lot of info out there. Do a search on “small business concessions” and that may pull up something.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Trusts usually have a clause in the deed about which state laws they are governed by. I am looking at a deed now and it he governing law depends upon which state the trustee resides in, or where its registered office is (if company). Other deeds specifically name the state.

    Other issues are stamp duty. Most states charge $200 stamp duty on the establishment of the trust. In QLD this is $nil!.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I haven’t heard of it either cannot see how you could pay off your mortgage without paying any extra.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I am in Sydney too.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Generally I would suggest people look at a trust to buy investment properties.

    Downsides are:
    – Maybe a bit more in land tax
    – Discretionary Trusts cannot distribute losses, so no negative gearing benefits

    But there may be a way around the negative gearing aspect by using a hybrid Discretionary Trust and borrowing to buy the units in the trust. There is a risk the ATO could disallow the interest on this as they are investigating HDTs, but I think they are still worth looking at as they can revert to a normal discretionary trust.

    Owning a investment in a company is generally not a good idea. This is because companies do not get the 50% CGT discount that is available to individuals and Trusts. Shares in the property are also an asset and could be at risk if you are sued.

    Individually owned assets are also at risk. Trust assets are generally safe from creditors.

    Trusts can also offer huge tax savings. Early on this may not be aparent, but later on they can really save you, eg. imagine if you were sitting on a $1mil captial gain 10 years down the track.

    Terryw
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I think the best way forward may depend on what you are currently using the LOC for. If you have having your wage etc put in, then you probably should not use it for investments.

    If you just have it sitting there, or have only used it for investments, then you could just take the deposits from this LOC and borrow the remainder, 80%, from another lender securred on the new house. The renovation money can come from the LOC too.

    It can be hard to get money specifically for renovations. Lenders often want to know what you will use the money for and want to see council approvals etc.

    Terryw
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