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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I also would suggest it is not wise to buy an appreciating asset in a company as you lose the 50% CGT reduction for assets held over 12 months – which could cap your tax at half of the top marginal rate of 46%. 23% is less than the company rate of 30%.

    And you certainly should not buy in the same company you trade with. Businesses are often sued, and this will place the properties at risk.

    I would look at trusts, probably in your situation a discretionary trust. Losses cannot be offset against no trust income, but being self employed, you may be able to structure it so your company profits can flow into the same trust offsetting losses.

    Blueheeler, losses cannot be be claimed by a beneficary. Unit holders may be able to claim a loss by borrowing to buy the units, but to enable this to happen there seems to be too many restrictions required for the ATO to accept it.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    In some states (or all?) it is possible to transfer shares in a company without stamp duty, unless the company is land rich. ie holding more than a certain value of land. in NSW this limit is about $1mil.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    EveSydney wrote:
    Thanks for your input. Is it possible then to fix a price taking into account the projected capital growth? How do sellers work out the selling price?

    yes, it would be possible. eg. You could offer the tenant an option to purchase the house at a discount of X% against a sworn valuation – or the average of a valuation requested by yourself and a valuation requested by the option holder.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Ask about exit fees and mortgage insurance, for low docs. These are the biggest worries for low docs. Maybe try to get a large LOC to help with the deposits on further properties.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Tax benefits of a trust result from the streaming abilities – you can usually distribute (with a discretionary trust) to the lowest income earner of a wide range of beneficiaries, this results in lower tax being paid.

    Trustees have a fiduciary duty to the beneficiaries of the trust. that means they must act in the best interest of the beneficiaries, not their own interests. The VIC ruling you mention may be related related to Land Tax.

    Banks impose their own requirements and nearly always will want all trustees to guarantee the loan. Sometimes they want the beneficiaries to guarantee as well. Once the loan is established it may be possible to enable just having one person's signature for redraws etc. Just like when you have a joint account, you can require both to sign, or either party to sign.

    Each state has legislation relating to Trusts, for NSW see

    TRUSTEE ACT 1925,

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ta1925122/

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hi Boshie

    Low Docs are generally only 80% LVR. There are some at 85%, some at 90% and even some at 95%, but rates are rather high at the high end.

    So assuming your property is worth $750,000, 80% of this is $600,000. But you currently have a loan of $505,000. So that is potentially $95,000 in usuable equity.

    You can stay with your current lender, possibly, if they have low docs and just leave the existing loan as is and set up another split of a LOC for $95,000.

    You could then use this as a deposit and costs for the new one. If you are going for a 20% deposit on a 80% Low Doc, then you will need about 25% including costs, so divide $95,000 by 0.25 and that gives you a potential max purchase price of $380,000.

    So you might be able to squeeze out two more $190,000 properties. But you will still need to consider whether you can service these loans.

    Once you have purchase one or two more, then you can add value and/or wait for more equity and repeat the process.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Yes, you would just have to apply like normal though. They would need proof of income and a new valuation etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I wouldn't be signing up with RAMS normally, their exit fees are too high, though they can be good for low docs in some situations. Now I would be even more wary.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    fact.

    Banks would not let someone take over without making sure they could pay the loan. What would happen if you took over and then stopped paying? The bank would be in the same position. 

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    If you are buying to take advantage of rising prices, then you may make less profit with by doing a lease option. This is because you (usually anyway) sell an option to the tenant at a certain amount. Later the property values can increase over this amount, but the tenant will still be able to purchase from you at this lower amount. This can result in the tenant making much more than yourself.. So you may end up given too much away to make some short term profit (small profit too).

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    it will still depend on the clients background to a large degree.

    1) ANZ or St George
    2) ANZ or St George
    3) I like St George as they have their own LMI and they are good with trusts. But they are fussy with wanting to see lots of documents (eg credit card statements). But they charge LMI.
    Citibank is very cheap at the moment, no LMI, but they only use Genworth for their LMI
    RAMS are good too having the 2 major LMI companies plus their own, and they can got o 85% LVR, but their exit fees are very high and they are not so good with trusts
    4) St George, maybe RAMS
    5) Don't use them, but St G have a discount on at the moment.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Hi

    Not sure what you mean by reinstate their loan? If you mean take over their loan, like they do in america, then this is not possible in Australia. You will need to apply and qualify on your own.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Hi Lisa

    I was going to suggest something similar to Richard and Simon. Using IO for all loans, even PPOR, and put all spare cash, including rents, into a 100% offset account against the PPOR, not into a LOC. You can have a LOC attached to the PPOR, but this should only be used for deposits and investment costs. As the funds in the offset increase, you can pay this off the home loan and increase the LOC. You probably should not just use this cash to directly pay deposits as this will result in higher interest on your home loan without it be deductible. If you were to pay all cash into a LOC it can get messy at tax time and result in lower deductions. You are also saving interest on the investment loans which means less deductions and end up paying higher interest on the home loan which is not deductible. Also consider paying all IP expenses such as insurance and rates etc from the LOC (get accountant's advice).

    Buying cashflow positive property that is low growth will slow you down in the long run. Deposits need to come from somewhere – cash or equity, so the only way forward without growth is saving.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    If you could find these people that are about to have their properties repossessed, then you could make them an offer. It is just a matter of finding them. possible sources are mortgage brokers, lawyers, debt collection agencies etc. But be ncareful of the privacy issues.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Trust names don't appear on titles. Just the trustee. The ATO knows because you will submit a tax return in the name of the trust and have other documents backing up the ownership being in the trust name in case this is ever disputed. eg. minute, contract of sale etc

    Trusts have names, but these are not really registered. You can register it when getting an ABN, and it can be searched via the http://www.abr.gov.au site. That is why it is best not to use you own name in part of the trust name – easily found.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Its going to be very messy with 8 people. How are you going to agree on things? (maybe good to have an odd number?).

    I would probably look at using a unit trust too. But who will be the trustee? Having 8 trustees could complicate things – you will need 8 people to sign eveything!

    Lenders will usually require guarantees from each director if a company and each trustee if a trust. They may also require guarantees from unit holders in some cases.

    Having 8 people guarantee a loan increases the risk dramatically. If it falls over, all could fall – though very unlikely.

    If you are going to be doing  a few of these, then what about splitting it up a bit. Maybe have 2 people involved as guarantors for the first one, with a discretionary trust in there somewhere so all could get the profits. Then for the next one have a new entity with the next 2 people etc. In terms of borrowing you will get much further this way.

    if 8 people sign loan docs, then for the next loan you get, whether on your own or joinlty, the lender will assume you own the whole debt (cause you will have to pay if the other 7 won't), but they will only take into account 1/8th of the rental income (cause this is your share). So you can see this will quickly exhaust your borrowing cap.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    At least with IO you have the choice of paying extra when you have the money (like a PI loan) and can then reduce your repayments if need be. With a PI loan you are stuck in paying PI.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    That is a very interesting question.

    I don't really know, but I suspect the 1st mortgage holder would have stronger rights than the new owner.

    WIth Bankruptcy, the Bankruptcy trustee can claw back sales of assets up to 5 years after they occur, if they are done to defeat creditors. SO I guess it is possible, and would depend on the circumstances.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Crashy

    You could on sell the house, but unless you have a option, you would need to pay stamp duty.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    guy_steele wrote:
    I have been tossing up whether to setup a trust or just buy my first IP in my name.

    I was interested in a trust soley for the asset protection.

    However the problem arises where the IP is slightly negatively geared. To make +ve cash flow I would need to claim depreciation. This works fine if I own the IP in my name as the depreciation comes off my personal tax. The problem arises, from my understanding when losses (depreciation) can't flow out of the trust to offset my personal income tax.

    I believe buying IP's in trusts may have worked for others in the past as the IP wass making money off the bat, hence the trust payed tax and then depreciation could be claimed against this within the trust.

    The question is, how do I buy IP's in a trust that and make use of the depreciation?

    Guy

    Hi Guy

    You could set up a HDT, but to be able to safely claim the interest it has to have many restrictions, so it may not be worth doing now. It may be better to take small losses in the early years with the DT and just keep rolling these over until a profit is made.

    You may be able to divert some other money into your tax someone to help offset this loss. eg. if youhave existing property, your trust could take a long term lease, with a discount, and then sublease the property at a higher rent. This will divert income into the trust which will then help offset the loss while giving you a bigger tax deduction against your personal income.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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