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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213

    Yes, good idea. I think it is good to do as much research as you can yourself before you go and see the lawyers/accountants etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    sometimes expected things happen. You may do all that work and then lose your job just before settlement and can't get finance. You may get sued by someone and have a bad credit report etc. If you can't settle then all the repairs stay with the house, There may even be some sort of delay with finance and you miss the deadline to settle and the greedy vendor sees the increase in value and fails to give you an extension etc. You may forget to notify the exercise of the option by the relevant date etc. many things can happen.

    There are a lot of books out there on options for shares, but not much for property. What there is for property is mainly legal type books such as:
    Principles of Land Contracts and Options in Australia Author:   C ROSSITER
    or
    The Law of Options and Other Pre-emptive Rights Author:   Donald Farrands

    Overview

    This seminal work on options and other pre-emptive rights in Australia offers a one-stop resource for any legal or tax-based questions about the drafting, exercising and assigning of pre-emptive rights. Topics covered: pre-emptive rights generally; the nature of an option; elements of a valid option; exercising an option; assigning an option; remedies for breach of option; first rights of refusal; labelled pre-emptive rights bearing other characteristics; pre-emptive rights in joint venture agreements.

    http://www.lawbooks.com.au/book/the-law-of-options-and-other-pre-emptive-rights.do

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    There sure would be some tax payable. Depending on how you do things it would be either income tax or CG.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hi

    You will have to apply for a variation to change to IO and they may charge you a fee, depending on the product you are currently on et.c

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You could do that if you can find a seller willing. But remember if you cannot settle for any reason you have just renovated someone else's property.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    hi Darren

    You can do it on a PPOR. But you need to be careful there.

    Best with an eg again.

    Say your PPOR loan was for $100,000 and you had $50,000 in the offset. You would have 2 choices if buying an IP

    1. use the $50,000 in the offset as a deposit.
    or
    2. pay the $50,000 into the PPOR and then reborrow it for the deposit for the IP.

    2 is much better as the interest on the $50,000 will be deductible. ie your home loan is now $50,000 and  you have reborrowed $50,000 for investment.

    With option 1 your home loan would still be $100,000 and you would be paying interest on the full $100,000 because the deposit for the IP wasn't borrowed.

    So why use an IO loan with offset for a PPOR?
    You would be no worse off in terms of interest by using the offset and IO, but you have the flexibility to pay the loan down if you need to.

    After a few years you may want to upgrade to a bigger PPOR and keep the existing one as an IP. If you had paid down the loan all your money may still be available as a redraw, but the interest on this money when taken out would not be deductible. But if you have used the offset option the loan won't be going down so all the interest on the full amount would be deductible if you converted the house to an IP.

    Does this make sense?

    With an IO loan you can also pay extra off it at any stage. So you could even keep the loan IO and pay the equivalent to PI if you wished to. if you were going thru a tight period you could reduce the repayments (if you had a PI loan you would need to reapply to do this). The repayments are lower than a PI loan so you can afford more investments.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    yes, better in an offset for tax reasons. Interest would be the same whether money goes into loan or offset.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    In that case it is a bit different.

    Paying down debt is good, but once you pay into a loan your money cannot be taken out again (eg redraw) without tax consequences.

    So I would suggest you set up a 100% offset account on at least one loan and continue to pay IO and then save all the extra money in the offset. You will continue to save the same amount of interest as if you paid into the loan, but your cash will be available later on.

    an example may explain it better.

    eg. you have a loan of $100,000 with $50,000 cash windfall. You could pay the $50,000 into the loan and reduce the balance to $50,000. Or you could put $50,000 in the offset and have a $100,000 loan. Either way you will be paying interest on only $50,000.
    say you then decide to buy a place to live in. You need $50,000 deposit. You could withdraw it from your loan. But the interest on this $50,000 would not be deductible. You would have a $100,000 loan with only $50,000 being deductible.

    But if you had used the offset you would just withdraw if from the offset account. The loan would still be $100,000 but interest would be charge on the full $100,000 now. But in this case the full interest on the $100,000 is deductible.

    can you see the difference?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You are correct, but what about the tax implications?

    You would be better to pay down the home loan first as the interest is not deductible. If you pay the investment down you will end up paying more tax, while the home loan will remain high with you paying more interest there.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I have used options in Victoria. try Mcdonald and partners solicitors, or Steve's old mate solicitor Lewis O'Brien.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Looks like you totally misjudged when fixing 3 years ago. Rates have been much lower than 7.1% for most or all of that period. So fixing again now may catch you out again.

    I personally never fix now as I find you can never predict it correctly and it ties you down too much and you can miss out on opportunites – moving banks and accessing cheaper rates and equity etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    look up the requirements. i think you will find it says something like you must move in within the first 12 months and live there for at least 6 months.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Do u have non deductible debt? if so you would be crazy to use PI on an investment

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    why buy something like that?

    being hard to finance means hard to sell which means low capital growth

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    This is how it works with tax.

    Profit = Income – Expenses.

    Income = rent
    Expeneses = cash expenses and non cash expenses.

    non-cash expenses are things you can claim, but not pay for directly. These can include:
    – Borrowing costs (sometimes these are added to the loan)
    – Depreciation of building
    – Depreciation of fittings
    – Travel

    Cash expenses include everything else you pay for related to the property.
    – rates
    – insurance
    – cleaning, mowing, gardening
    – land tax (if any)
    – repairs
    – water
    – Interest

    Usually if your loan is large the profit will be negative. That means you have a loss. This loss can then be used to offset other income.

    eg. You earn $50,000 in your day job. Your property has a $10,000 loss.
    Your overall income is now $40,000
    The tax you need to pay reduces. You have probably paid tax on $50,000, but your income is only $40,000 so you will get a refund when you do your tax. If you work out all of this at the start of the year you can get a letter from the ATO to tell your employer to take out less tax week by week – which you can use to reduce the loan on your PPOR by (never reduce an investment loan).

    Also you should note that even though you may have a large loss, your property may be income positive as large parts of the expenses can be generated from non cash expenses which you are not actually paying.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I just wrote out a long reply to a similar post here:
    https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/getting-technical/finance/4330095?#comment-199355

    It may apply to you too, or some of it.

    Selling and buying again costs a fortune.

    Since you are going to be having such a large loan on the new one you may want to consider doing something like moving in and then out again and renting it and using the 6 year CGT exemption rule to avoid CGT but allowing you to claim all depreciation, expenses etc and thereby saving you a fortune in tax. Setting it up properly and thinking outside the square may enable you to have your cake and eat it too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    There are a few ways you could do it.

    1. sell to a trust. Stamp duty would be payable, but the new full loan would be deductible. The trouble with this is any loss would be trapped in the trust and cannot be used to offset personal income.

    2. one partner sell to the other. Stamp duty may be payable, depending on the state. Usually it is only stamp duty exempt if it is the main residence. If you do this the partner buying out the other could borrow and this would make the loan much larger increasing deductions and freeing up cash for the new one.

    3. Set up a LOC on the existing one for the payment of investmnet expenses. This would leave things as they are now, but slowly free up cash which can be used to pay down the new PPOR loan. eg. when rates are due for the existing property, now IP, you borrow from the LOC and the cash you would have used is paid into the PPOR loan.

    A variation of this is to use the LOC to pay for interest on the IP as well as all other expenses. The rent and all over income is placed into a 100% offset account against the New PPOR loan. Using this method should see the new place paid off in 5 to 10 years. But to do this you will need expert advice from a tax expert otherwise the ATO may deem it a scheme.

    4. Sell the place use the cash to pay down PPOR and then buy again. Trouble is you will lose about 10% in costs such as stamp duty, legals, agents fees, loan exit fees etc

    Other than these methods you cannot just borrow from the old loan and pay into the new as the interest would not be deductible.

    Also consider using a IO loan with a 100% offset for the new PPOR loan too as you may decide to move from there at a later date./

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    i would say generally no. You want to buy something with a large component of land. Land appreciates while the structures on them slowly depreciate. So I avoid apartments altogether.

    But sometimes you may get a good yield out of an apartment and they can still go up in price over the short term.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    this looks like them. they have had a change of name http://www.mdplaw.com.au/

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Probaly like this.
    $200 pw is income. = $10,400 pa

    You will be able to claim expenses too. This will probably depend on how much of the apartment you are renting out as a percentage. If you are renting 1 room of a 2 bedroom apartment, then you could probably claim half of all expenses including:
    interest
    rates,
    insurance,
    body corp fees
    accounting
    etc

    Then you can also claim non cash expenses such as 20% of loan establishment costs (incl LMI) over 5 years. Depreciation on building and depreciation on fittings (such as carpets, hotwater systems etc). You should get a quantity surveyor to assess the values of all these things as they can add up.

    Futher possible deductions would depend on how the household is set up. If the tenant watches your TV you could also claim a percentage of that (depreciation). Pots and pans, furniture etc too.

    There may be other things you can claim as deductions outright like toilet paper if you supply it. internet, electricity etc.
    (remember on 50% on everything).

    All these expenses should add up to much more than you are receiving in rent, so you will have a loss. This loss can offset other income so you should save tax.

    But bear in mind you will lose the CGT exemption on the part you are renting out so it may end up costing you more in the long run.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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