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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Credit unions are usually pretty good for personal loans. You may be able to use an existing vehicle as security and get a lower rate too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Sometimes selling can make sense, especially if you have huge equity in an IP and you can use that to pay off your PPOR.

    But other than that you can afford to buy a new PPOR if your income and rents are high enough. Don't forget that rents helps servicing a lot.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    c9806103 wrote:
    Thanks once again Terry.  That was again very helpful.

    The offset vs redraw tax advantages now seem very clear.

    So to check my understanding, is this correct:
    The essence of changing to an IO loan, is that the repayments are smaller than for a P&I loan. This means that each month, I will be left over with more spare cash from the rental income. This spare cash can then be used (via the offset account) to help reduce my new non-deductable mortgage. And that makes sense because you want to shrink any non-deductable loans ASAP where as a deductable mortgage is fine to just sit there, because it's deductable. So you are essentially diverting money that would have just been reducing an already deductable P&I loan into helping to pay down a non-deductable loan?

    Meanwhile however, your investment loan just sits there forever, is that a good thing? Or because that debt is deductable, AND the place is appreciating in value, it doesn't matter.. I.e. you will make your money from the capital gains, not from paying the deductable debt down.. Am I on the right track??

    Now re: the new PPoR loan. Why should that be IO? can understand not wanting to pay investment debt down, but with your PPoR, don't you want to pay it down super ASAP? Or is your approach leaving it as IO, so that you can essentially build up cash in an offset against that IO, then when you have enough cash eventually in that offset which matches the balance of the IO loan, you have essentially paid the loan off, but then LATER should that house then later become an investment, well it's still "officially" in debt, because you never really paid it off, you just saved into an offset.. I think I am starting to follow you here..

    Many thanks!! :P

    Yep, I think that is about correct.

    As for investment loans being paid off – I would never pay one off, but just leave them IO and pay off the PPOR first (or offset). Once that is done then you could start paying off the investment loans, but I would just set up an offset on one of these and accumlate funds there.

    Remember once you have paid down a loan there are tax consequences of getting the money out again.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You can't set up a trust after you have purchased – or you will need to sell to the trust. it is easy to do but costly as you will have to pay stamp duty and probably CGT tax as well as legals and loan exit and app fees again.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I think you have it slightly squewed.

    Lets work thru some rough figures.

    Your current loan is $293,000. I recommending changing this to IO for many reasons – the main one is taxaxtion. eg may explain it better:
    Say you had $50,000 in savings. You could deposit this on the loan (plan A)  and the balance will be $243,000. Or you could put it in an offset account (plan B) and you loan balance will be $293,000 but you will only be charged interest on $243,000. So the net interest is the same either way.

    A year down the track you want to buy a new place to live in. Plan A above would mean your money is tied up in the investment. To access it you would need to use redraw and this will be classed as new borrowings. The interest on this extra $50k will not be deductible as it was borrowed to purchase a new place to live in.

    If you used plan B the loan balance has not changed. You will take the $50k from the offset, not the loan. This is not new borrowings. The interest on the loan will now be charged at the full loan balance of $293,000 and your tax deductions will increase. You have effectively gained a tax deduction on this extra $50k borrowed.

    This is why you should never pay down a loan, especially one on an investment.

    In addition you get all the rent and wages paid striaght into the offset so you are saving even more interest. When you buy the new place to live in you take all the money with you and set up a new offset on this house so you can save non-deductible interest and maximise tax deductions on the old investment.

    Taking this one step further.
    Your IP value is $500,000. 80% of this is $400,000, but current loan is $293,000 that is a potential $107,000 LOC. You could use this to purchase the new one, but I recommend doing it differently.
    You want a new one around $250,000 so you will need 20% deposit (to avoid LMI) and 5% costs = $62,500. So have this as one split. maybe round it up to $65,000. The remaining 80% comes from a new loan, also recommend IO wth offset.

    Then have another $42,000 as a LOC and use this for all expenses relating to the investment property. Borrow to pay rates, water, insuruance, etc. The money you would have used to pay can then go to your new PPOR loan.helping to pay it down faster. If you had more equity you could even apply for a private ruling and have all interest for the IP loan paid for out of the LOC making it even faster.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I also would recommend a IO loan with an offset. Using PI means you are paying down the loan and have less cash available for a new PPOR later on.

    Having multiple trustees is not good from an asset protection pov, but you can often have relatives guarantee trust loans if need be as they are beneficiaries of the trust. Having a company as trustee also makes things more flexible as shareholders/directors can be added and changed easily.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    You may not receive a notice from the ATO. They only send these out to encourage people to do their returns on time.

    Due date would be the same as company/individuals which is the end of Oct I think, but if you lodge thru a tax agent this is extended till next year.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Since they have paid their house off it may be easier for them to just give their property as security in addition to yours and then you borrow 105% of the purchase price of the new one.

    But, this is extremely risky and they could lose their property if things go wrong. Imagine if your property drops slightly and you cannot pay the loan. The legal fees mount up and then bank eventually takes your property and sells it for a $10k loss. They will then go for the guarantors and may even sell the parents property to recoup the loss.

    If you had borrowed from them then it is different. Their property would not be used as security so when the bank repossesses your property that is where it ends – you may be bankrupted and the parents may lose the money they lent you but their house is safe.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    hi Dean

    Thats true about land tax in NSW. But once you have a few properties you will be paying land tax on them anyway. The exemption only applies to the first $370,000 or so.

    If you have 2 children they can earn about $3,000 pa each without paying tax. An adult can earn approx $15,000 pa without paying tax.

    So say you had a property portfolio returning $21,000 pa profit. If it was in your name you may pay $10,000 in tax, but if it a discretionary trust you could distribute it to wife and kids and may pay nil. As well as getting asset protection.

    The downside is that if there is a loss it is trapped in the tax and cannot be used to offset your personal income. Usually with property there is a loss in the early years. If you are self employed this can be offset by diverting other business income into the trust, if you are an employee this is much harder.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    hi HB

    Lenders will want to include loans that someone has guaranteed in serviceability too.

    Business is extremely risky, so it is not a good idea to run a business like that. Better to set up a company to limit liability. You can have the shares owned by your trust.

    For spouses you can have the ownership of the property in 1 name with both names on the loan. Having the main house owned by the non-risk spouse is  agood asset protection idea.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    by being a guarantor that means they are putting their property on the line. It would be much safer if they could just lend you 20% – but this would all depend on their situation as well and may not be possible.

    read as many books as you can including 0 to 35.

    by modest, i mean as cheap as you can get for your area – but within reason.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I should also add you can only claim one place as your main residence at any one time.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    You can only claim a place as your main residence after you have moved in. So not living there wouldn't qualify. Moving in later would qualify from that time, but the period in which it was rented can't count for the CGT exemption.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    It is best to change the loan to Interest only asap. Each dollar you pay means a dollar less for your new home which means more non-deductible borrowings. Set up a 100% offset so it will save you the same interest as if you were paying down the loan.

    Yes, set up another loan for the deposit, but probably not a LOC, just a IO loan will do as the LOCs have a higher interest rate. Try to keep this loan to 25% of the new property to cover the deposit and 5% costs. You can't claim the interest on this as it is not for investment.

    Then, a small 'trick', set up another loan a 3rd loan on your townhouse. Use this loan to pay for all expenses for the investment property. ie borrow to pay for expenses and claim the interest. The cash that you would of used can then go to your home down to pay down non-deductible debt.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Start by reading as much as you can.

    Then try to get into a modest house as soon as you can. Don't aim too high, you just will want something to get a foot in the market. I suggest you go for the FHOG and stamp duty concessions etc, live in it for 6 months (and do it up a bit while there), and then move out back to mum and dads. You can claim all expenses etc and still have this one CGT exempt for up to 6 years. Use a IO loan wiht a 100% offset account attached and plough all rent and salary into the offset. Be a tight arse for a year and save for a new deposit and hopefully some capital gains will kick in. from there it is smooth sailing!

    To get into the first one try to borrow the 20% deposit from parents if you can. And keep on saving as much of your income as you can – look into the high interest savings accounts such as ING etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Lenders will take into account loans you have guaranteed as well as loans in which you are a borrower – it is the same thing really. But it is still a good idea to consider buying in one name as you may need to guarantee the loan initially but as circumstances change you may later refinance and come off the loan – and that will increase borrowing capacity.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Also note that even if the trust is established and does nothing and has no income etc you will need to lodge a return.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You would get a second loan against property A and then use the cash from this for the 20% deposit and costs of property B and then borrow the remaining 80% from a bank. Banks for each property can be different and the loans won't be cross collateralised.

    If you just went into a bank they would recommend you take out one big loan of 105% of the new property and they would want both property A and B as security for this loan. I would advise against this.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    No, you can borrow against that property. You just have to apply for a variation of security when you change titles

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Asset protection can be gain on existing properties without moving them to a trust. The CGT and stamp duty would be too expensive to move them so I would just think about future properties being in the trust and talk to a lawyer about protecting the existing ones.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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