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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    A trust is a relationship where A owns something for B.

    A is the legal owner but B is the real owner.

    Just think of a bank account for kids. Kids cannot operate bank accounts so the parent opens an account as trustee for the kid. The parent's name is on the account but the money belongs to the kid. The income from the account belongs to the kid and should go on their tax return (they won't have to lodge one unless they earn more than a certain amount). The parent is the trustee and the kid is the beneficiary.

    Simply put that is what a trust is.

    There are many different types of trust with one of hte main ones being a discretionary. This is one where the Trustee can give the income to a wide class of beneficiaries at the discretion of the trustee. This is great because the trustee can give to the beneficiaries with the lowest income first and this will reduce the tax payable.

    It is also good because the beneficiaries don't own the trust property or the income (until a distribution), so if a beneficiary goes bankrupt the trust assets are not up for grabs. The trustee wouldn't give them any income either or the creditors may get their hands on that. They would then give to them again once they come out of bankruptcy.

    Thats the quick version of what a trust is.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You would only want to pay down an investment loan if you had no non-deductible debt at all. Even then I personally wouldn't do it, but keep the loan IO with the offset.

    Also i doesn't really matter if you pay down the first one and have a higher second loan – what you should be looking at is the overall LVR. From a borrowing POV it may be better to repay the minimum and keep the cash for the deposits for the next one.

    Cross collateratisaltion = using 2 securities for 1 loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Fred

    anyone can pay GST. if you were to purchase a new house GST would be included in the price – same as if you were to buy a car or TV etc. Personal or company don't matter.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You can only have 1 property as your main residence for the CGT exemption. ie one property at any one time (per couple) – except for a 6 month overlap when selling.

    And you can't claim a property as an investment unless it is rented out – or you are trying to rent it out.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    johnmina wrote:
    Hi Thanks for that Terry that clears some things up. I'm just waiting for my accountant to come back from holiday and I'll be speaking to him in a lot more detail, till then I'm trying to learn as much as possible. I have a few questions about the equity of a property and if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated. 1 In a trust structure is it possible to use the equity of a property for personal use or as a deposit for another IP? 2 If the equity can be used can it be used to pay back a debt on an existing negatively geared property to make it positively geared? 3 Does borrowing the equity from an IP increase the loan repayments of that loan or is it just borrowing against the equity and is a different loan all together therefore having its own repayments? Thank you John

    Hi John

    in Regards to 1. The asset is not yours. It belongs to the trust which means all the beneficiaries of the trust. The trustee has a ficiary obligation to act in the best interests of the beneficiaries so you cannot use this funds as if they are your own because technically they are not. So you have to be careful if borrowing money from the trust or the trust letting you use its property etc. If the trustee is a company you need to be extra careful about borrowing money or the ATO may deem it a dividend payment.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    hi

    Are you asking if you should move into your holiday home and sell the one you are living in?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I should add, it you borrow against Perth the interest on the extra funds borrowed will only be deductible if they are used for an investment purpose. Same with LMI. What you are proposing above seems like you want to borrow to buy a place to live in so the interest and LMI wouldn't be deductible.

    Deductibility depends on ownership and you can't can't that on an existing property. If you are thinking about the new one it won't matter whose name or what percentage it is in as you can't claim it if you will live in it – but it may be important if you more out later.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    It doesn't matter where you borrow the money or what the security is but what the money is used for determines deductibility.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    hi John

    80 Years is a long time and it will probably be your grandkids getting the property then. When the trust must vest or wind up the trustee distributes the trust assets to the beneficiaries. At present some states would be stamp duty free, not sure about CGT it would probably be payable though. Remember taxes/stamp duties etc are likely to change before the time comes. The beneficiaries then own it outright and can do as they please with  the asset.

    This law, called the law against perpetuities, is designed to prevent rich families from locking up assets long term over many generations.

    JUst think of your trust as a third person. Lets call him X. If X has a loss you can't claim it against your income. Its his to keep until he can make a profit. But you could lend him the money or gift him money to keep him afloat until the profit comes in.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Make sure you don't use your cash to invest just keep paying into your home loan and borrow the equity to invest as Daniel mentions. You can also set up another loan to pay the investment expenses and interest on your investments to speed up the paying off of your home loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    yeah, makes sense.

    Just be sure you organise a special interest in advance loan – it is not just a matter of dumping in 12 months of repayments to an existing loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You would need a tax agent/accountant to get taxation advice or maybe a tax lawyer.

    see bantacs.com.au they can arrange a private ruling from the ATO for you for about $600

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You would need to transfer (sell) to the trust = stamp duty, legals, loan fees etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    For borrowing to pay interest you would ideally get a LOC and just borrow every month and let it capitalise until you reach the limit or until you have paid off your home loan. – but you need expert advice about this.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    CGT = Capital Gains Tax

    Maybe you could minimise this by selling one per tax year.

    Try to work out what it would cost you in interest if you got a loan to build the new home, and then work out the CGT – it may be cheaper to keep the properties and pay non-deductible interest on your home, live cheaply and repay the loan as quick as you can. Rents should continuously increase on your rentals so the process will gradually speed up.

    Also beware that building and selling may still attract tax even if living in the place if you are doing it in a business like manner.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    If you are going to rent out a property with equity you should look at borrowing to pay the interest. Then divert all income and rents to paying down the new PPOR loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Is the 1.2 Million loan deductible? (eg you may have used it to buy the shares).

    If it isn't I would consider selling the shares and paying this down to $1. Then reborrowing it so that all the interest would be deductible if you used it to purchase investments.

    From there you can consider what sort of investment.

    As for strategy, I think you should look at property with growth potential as close ot cashflow positive as possible and shares with high yields and potential

    Have a look at this strategy:
    http://www.somersoft.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34046

    It is one of the best i have heard of. Depending on your needs you could implement something similar and probably retire very soon.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Repayments are not all expenses, only the interest portion is.

    What you need to do is add up all expenses and depreciation and then deduct this from the income. If it is a profit it is added to your other income and you pay more tax, if it is a loss (negative gearing) then you minus from other income and you will save tax.

    For scenario 2 you would just do the same as the above but for a percentage. eg. if you are renting 50% of the house out you claim 50% of the costs. Also beware that this may make 50% of your house suject to CGT.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    What is the LVR?

    if it is in a major city you might be able to get up to 70% LVR. Rates are 10%+

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Pay down all non deductible debt as fast as possible (or better – keep the money in a 100% offset account attached to the PPOR loan). And borrow as much as you can for paying investment expenses.

    When the non-deductible loan is paid off then you have a choice of paying down existing investment loans or getting more investment properties – or may be a bit of both depending on your  risk profile.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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