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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hi Cazzie

    Yes, income from one source can be used to offset a loss from another ,such as a negative geared property if both are held in the trust. Just think of the trust as a separate person for taxation purposes. All their income and expenses are taken into account and then any profits are distributed.

    Just be wary of running a business in a trust though. There is no limited liability as there would be in a pty ltd company. So if the trustee is sued their personal assets are potentially up for grabs – as well as the other assets of the trust.

    It would be best to have a company as trustee or to have a company operate the business and the shares owned by a trust.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Samsons wrote:
    Hi all,

    Very interesting forum! I have one question. As per my previous question whether I could transfer my own home to make it an investment property and reading that that is not possible, what if you have a family trust? Can you transfer your home to it and rent it out through the Trust then any profit made, couldn't you distribute it to the different members of the family trust and therefore reduce your tax?

    Sam

    You could sell your house to your discretionary trust. Any profit would then be able to be disributed to a wide variety of beneficiaries and it could potenitally save you tax.

    Down sides are you will pay stamp duty and your property is likely to be cashflow negative. Losses of a trust cannot be used to offset personal income. You may also pay more land tax in NSW.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Sam

    You can gradually improve your tax position by borrowing to pay your investment loan interest. This will help build deductions while paying off your home loan faster. It is a dangerous strategy so you will need professional advice from a tax advisor.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    They need to consider various other issues too such as asset protection – it is potentially dangerous to have a lot of assets. They should also consider taxation, centrelink and estate planning issues.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    The is the settlor.

    The settlor is the person that hands over the initial thing to the trustee to be held on trust – this is what starts it off. It is usually just $10, but could be anything really.

    There are various rules about the settlor not benefiting from the trust – so it should be someone unrelated who will never have the possibility of being a beneficiary. Often it is the lawyer or accountant that takes on this role.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Often the wording of the deed means that any coompany in which a primary beneficiary has shares, is an office holder of etc, is also a beneficiary of the trust – without actually needing to be named.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    balniks wrote:
    Hi all,

    I'm currently in the process on refinancing my 2 loans. On my PPOR i have about 120k owing, and on the investment about 105k. Value of both together is approx 400k. So i have a bit of equity in them. I'm currently paying interest only on them, and want to continue paying IO as i am planning to rent out my PPOR in the next year or so.

    To cut to the chase, my investment prop. is an over 55's unit. This seems to be effecting my new lender a bit. This is what they have to say:

    My manager is suggesting we refinance the whole loan amount (the total of $225,000) but in effect we are paying out the investment portion of your loan ($105,000) because you have enough equity in your owner occupied property. The reason is to avoid using the investment property as security as it may not be an acceptable property for the loan.
     
    You just need to check with your accountant whether this would affect your abillity to claim the interest portion for the investment as a tax deduction.

    So the important question is the last sentence in blue. How will this effect my tax claims on the Investment for the time being, and will it be a hassle down the track when i make my current PPOR a rented property. What kind of setup paperwork wise would i need for this to be easy at tax time etc.

    Any help is appreciated, i have about a month while waiting for paperwork to make up my mind. Basically he didn't want to charge me extra $ also to get the 2nd Property valued etc, if i wasn't going to be able to do this.

    Thanks guys,
    Michael

    I agree with Disco Stu (Dan). It shouldn't matter for tax deductibility. Just make sure the loans are not joined together – ie keep the two separate, but secured by the one property.

    The freed up property could then be used later on to get access to equity for further investing.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You can include anyone as a beneficiary – but there are taxation issues that need to be considered if money is distributed to a non-resident (for tax purposes) as they get no tax free threshold and pay a higher rate of tax.

    You probably should not put a non resident as trustee as you may have problems with the trust being controlled by a non-resident and therefore needing FIRB approvals etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    you should be able to delay settlement – if you settle the removal of tenants becomes your problem

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Lefty, do a search – this question comes up almost weekly these days

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Thats an idea – plan ahead now, get ABNs etc ready

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    sounds like good advice.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I think the cashflow argument runs along the lines of you can't live on capital growth now, where you can live on cashflow sooner.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You will have to advertise or engage an agent. It won't be that easy

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    benq wrote:
    Hi guys,
    can someone quickly clarify to me whether the entitlement  of the rental income of a tenanted property is that of the seller or buyer , during the 6 week settlement period where only the 10% deposit has been paid and cooling off period has already expired.

    am i correct to assume that until the property is completely paid in full (ie after teh settlement) and hence ownership transfered to the new buyer, then any income derived from rent is still the entitlement of the previous owner?

    on this point, what about costs incurred during the settlement period eg a broken stove etc. would the cost of repair be the onus of the previous owner or new buyer?

    thanks
    ben

    Unless you agree otherwise, the rent will belong to the vendor. You are also generally buying the property at the condition it is on the date of exchange, so if something happens between then and settlement the vendor would generally be liable.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    My understanding is that GST only applies to residential property which is new. So it shouldn't apply to an existing house. It could apply to the new house, depending on your circumstances. I would ask an accountant for a written advice on the matter – and keep detailed records of all payments etc in case you need to claim later. If you need to register, then you should register in the same names as the ownership of the property.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You have to be careful in buying something like this. If he goes bankrupt the creditors may start forcing and investigation of recent sales of his assets and if he sells it too cheaply it could cause you problems – may be unlikely, but still possible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    If you have exchanged contracts then you are pretty much locked in – unless the project is delayed and you can escape from the sunset clause.

    If you think you will have problems getting finance, then it is best to try to onsell the property asap. It is not always easy to find a buyer and you wouldn't want to risk not settling. Stamp duty will still be payable by both yourself and the person you sell it to.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I think the greatest benefits of a discretionary trust is the flexibility. Once you have purchased assets you cannot cahnge ownership structure without great cost. If you keep on purchasing in your own name you get stuck with the income – it may be small initially, but it will increase over time and is like a tax timb bomb!

    If you have a trust you can constantly adjust who the distributions go to. eg. you could get the income one year and the next year form a new company and then distribute income to the company. later on you may have another trading company with a loss, so you could distribute to that company to offset the loss and save you tax etc. This wouldn't be possible if you owned via personal names.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Not really – as long as your money is sitting in the offset – you would be saving the same interest. However, the principle may reduce slight more if you were to make fortnightly payments (because there are 13 fornights in a year).

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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