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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Transferring from 2 spouses to one of you?

    You will need a conveyancer or solicitor to do the conveyancing for you – unless you are capable of doing it yourself.

    You will also need to reapply for your loan and negotiate exit fees. There will be govt charges such as discharge of mortgage etc.

    If it is an investment property, or has been, or has been income producing etc then you will need to consider Capital gains tax.

    You will also need to consider stamp duty. But you may be exempt
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/da200093/s43.html

    Also will need to update insurances etc.

    If you are at risk of bankruptcy you will need to consider the clawback provisions of the bankruptcy etc.

     Also consider asset protection issues if the title holder is sued.

    And don't forget the estate planning aspects such as changing wills.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    opinions of ATO staff don't hold much weight I am afraid. I had a friend who worked at the ATO for years, he told me about one guy on the phones there who just used to say yes to everything.

    The law says if you incured interest on money borrowed to invest then it is deductible.

    In your example the husband is borrowing the full amount of the cost of the shares, but he really only owns half of those shares. If he only uses 50% of the money borrowed to buy the shares, where has the other 50% gone? The wife has used it to buy her 50%. So essentially he has onlent the money to the wife to buy the shares.

    I would say there is a strong case that the wife can claim 50% of the interest in this case.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    both i would say.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    qin wrote:
    Hi,

    I am new to this forum. With what I have been reading from this forum, I feel people here are very helpful, so I am wondering, I might be able to get some help here too. Below is my situation:

    (1) I bought a PPOR around 6 years ago (p1)
    The price I bought was at $380K, now it worth $500K
    I still have around $240K loan with the bank, I have an offset account for the loan. The redraw amount allowed from the loan account is around $48000

    (2) I am planning to buy another property soon, costing around $480K (p2)
    My plan is to rent out my current PPOR after I bought the new one, then move into the new property for a few years (say, 5 or 6 years), then rent the new one out. Afterwards I might be move back to my current PPOR.

    I am the sole owner of the both properties.

    I got some ideas from some source saying  it might be more tax beneficial if I first rent out the p2, namely the new one, before moving in.

    I would like to get help/clarification from here on the following points:
    (1) Would that be the case I shall first rent out my  new purchasing for better tax benefit?
    (2) When I rent the P1 out, would the interest for the P1 deductable? Some people told me, theoretically, the interest of P1 shall not be tax deductable as the original purpose of the P1 wasn't for investment.
    (3) What would be the best way to structure the loan on the two properties?

    Thank you for your help.

    Qin

    1. I do not think there are any tax benefits in renting P2 out first, other than the normal negative gearing issues. There could be some disadvantages though. Once you live in a property you could class it as your main residence and be later entitled to a CGT exemption. It cannot be your main residence until you live in it (bear in mind you can only have one main residence).

    2. No, not true. ATO looks at the purpose the funds were borrowed for. In your case you have borrowed to buy the property. if that property is a rental then the interest on the loan would be deductible. However, if you have redrawn money from the loan this may complicate things and the interest on this redraw may not be deductible.

    3. You will be possibly moving out of both properties and renting, so i would suggest you do not pay any loans down. Use IO loans on both and have a 100% offset attached. put all cash in the offset against the property you are living in, and if you change, move your cash to the new property you will live in.

    For the new property i would set up a LOC on P1 and then use this as 20% deposit on the new one and then take out a separate loan. Keep both loans secured by just one property. ie no cross collateralising.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Its probably best to speak to a broker to see if you can qualify for a loan. This would be the first step i think.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I would suggest you pay market rates for the land. If the owner has a debt to you of $80,000 then you can pay value less what he owes you. Its as if you have already paid $80,000 deposit.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You can pay whatever you like, but

    Stamp duty must be paid at market rates
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/da199793/s21.html

    CGT must also be calculated at market rates

    Putting lower figures on contracts etc could result in lower valuations which may mean lower borrowing abilities.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Say you buy a property with someone 50/50. You borrow 100%. Of but you only own half of the property so you can only claim 50%. Makes sense I guess, but the tax deductions for the other 50% are wasted. You could argue that you borrowed the other 50% and on lent it to the 2nd person. Who used it to buy their share. They pay you interest and you pay the bank interest = your income from interest is the same as your expense for interest, for this person.

    Amy, yes.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Not sure why you want an accountant who operates nearby.

    These days you can do everything via email with no need to actually go in to see the accountant. Its not like getting a hair cut where you need to be present. Even if you did go in you would only go once or twice a year and the trip is tax deductible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Doesn't sound right to me either. I would argue that the person on the loan is borrowing on behalf of the other person, as bare trustee, and therefore she is entitled to claim the interest.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    This thread reminds me of a proverb:

    Only a fool learns from their own mistakes, a wise person learns from the mistakes of others.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I got rejected for my first loan, and never approached another lender, just giving up.

    I wonder what that property would have been worth now.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    This is strange. I thought it was the other way around, but there are 2 people on title with only 1 on the loan. I have never seen a bank do this. usually all title holders must go on the loan. Another way would be for the second person to give a guarantee. But just one person would be a problem as they don't own the whole property, just part so how could they mortgage the whole property?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Probably best to pay off your non-deductible mortgage first. If you want to invest, then reborrow it and set up a new loan account. This will save you tax.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You could sell your home CGT free and release about $350,000 cash.

    If you sell your unit it would there would be CGT, and it would leave you with lttile cash maybe  $10 to 20k cash after expenses.

    The more cash you chip in the new purchase the smaller the loan and the lower the repayments.

    Also factor in if you keep the house and rent it out you will be probably paying tax on the rent – ie positive geared. On the other hand if yu sell the unit you will be improving your weekly cashflow too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Purchaser is responsible for paying the stamp duty. Its up to you to negotiate it or factor it into the price.
    You will need a conveyancer to do the transfer and need to talk to your bank about changing the loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Dan42 wrote:
    Terryw wrote:
    Stamp duty is $500+ in nsw, but may be nil in other states.

    Wow, 500 bucks stamp duty!

    There is no stamp duty on trusts in SA.

    And they last forever there! The only state with no law against perpetuities.

    There used to be no stamp duty in QLD too, but I am not sure if that has changed.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Yes, transfers between spouses in VIC is exempt from s tamp duty
    s43 of the Duties Act 2000
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/da200093/s43.html

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It depends on how complex your situation it. HR block only charges around $100 for a  simple return. But the more you have in terms of properties, shares, unusual deductions etc then the more work there is.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I would say generally that it is only the title holder that can claim the interest and also all costs. The other person just assisted with the borrowings and has essentially onlent that money to the title holder to make the purchase. This might be different if the title holder is acting as trustee for the 2nd person though.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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