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Do you mean that property is worth $390k?
That would make it highly geared. 85% LVR. Getting another property would make this dangerously high – unless you have other property or cash.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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You will need a written agreement setting out how it will all work and should include things such as:
– whose name title is in
– loans
– contributions of money
– contributions of time, who does what etc
– what happens if one wants out and the other doesn't
etcLook out for bankruptcy of your partner and/or future claims of spouses.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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There used to be an intensive full time licencing course in NSW at the REINSW. It was around 3 months full time.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Agents fees – around 2 to 3% plus GST
Legals – around $1,000
CGT
Loan exit fees
Mortgage discharge feesThese are the main ones.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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You would have:
– Stamp Duty
– Govt fees such as registration of mortgage etc
– Legals and disbursments (title searches etc)
– Building and pest (optional)
– Loan fees
– Lenders Mortgage Insurance (usually if you borrow more than 80%).All this would generally be the same whether you are using a company or trust or individual – loan fees may rise slightly for a company or trust.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I would ask you to consider a few more options.
Why not move into this one briefly, obtain the FHOG and stamp duty exemptions live in it for 6 months (with boarders if necessary) and then move back home with the parents. This way you can have the property CGT free for up to 6 years, if not longer. The property could double in value within this time and CGT could eat up to 24% of the gain. Even if you never intend to sell it is worth doing as there will be a transfer eventually.
Also I suggest you do not pay the place off. If you do your cash is tied up and unable to be used tax effectively later on. Imagine if you start off with a $250,000 loan and pay this off within 10 years. You then decide you want to buy a new house to live in. Your cash is tied up, so your new house loan will be $250,000 more than it could have been. The interest on this extra $250,000 will not be deductible. that is about $17,500 pa in deductions. possibly $5,000 in missed out tax savings PER YEAR.
So I suggest you use a 100% offset account with an IO loan. Never pay 1c off the principle and be disciplined and save every cent you can into the offset until you have an amount the same as the loan balance.
This should save you the same as if you paid directly into the loan – actually it should save you more as you would normally have a small savings account separately even if paying the loan off fast. Once you have $250,000 in the offset you then have the choice of paying off the loan if you wish – or the flexibility to use this money as you deem fit. And if for example you took out $250,000 from the offset to use as a deposit on your new PPOR the interest payable on the investment would increase and this would be deductible – saving around $5,000 pa.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I explained it above:
Putting money into a LOC will save you interest but will cost you in tax.
Everytime you place money into the account it is a repayment of a loan. Everytime you withdraw money out it is new borrowings.
So if you put $100 in the LOC for one day and then take it out tomorrow to buy food the investment loan has decreased by $100 and the personal loan has increased by $100.
Imagine doing this every week for a number of years. You could have a $100,000 loan with none of the interest being deductible.
Whereas if you had used an offset account this could have been totally avoided – while saving you the same or more interest.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
get a new accountant!
and before you leave tell him to look up the tax act, s 118-145 ITAA 1997
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/itaa1997240/s118.145.htmlTerryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
depends how it is set up.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Its good that you retaining one property with the CGT free status.
That is true about the land tax. You will use up the tax free threshold soon if you keep buying properties so having a trust will not make much difference there as you will be up for land tax anyway.
When you sell the main residence in your personal name, then the trust property will still be an IP of the trust. This should not affect anything.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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I think in QLD is you are living in a trust property as your 'main residence' it may be exempt from land tax even though it is trust owned. However, I don't think this is the case in NSW. So even if you were living in your trust property as your main residence then it wouldn't qualify for the land tax exemption (or CGT main residence exemption).
Also, even though land tax may be deductible it is still a high cost. Imagine a cheap property with land valued at $300,000. That is approx $5,000 every year in extra tax which otherwise may be avoided.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Just remember was a private ruling so it only applies to the person that applied for the ruling. Your situation will be different and staying long term may or may not be an issue. If you want to be on the safe side you could apply for your own ruling.
In NSW I don't think there are any land tax exemptions for main residences held in trusts. You will pay 1.7% pa on the value of the land which is a considerable amount so you should make sure you factor this into your calculations.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
You may want to look at these rulings
PBR 83291
http://www.ato.gov.au/rba/content.asp?doc=/RBA/Content/83291.htmTR 2002/18
Income tax: home loan unit trust arrangement
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=TXR/TR200218/NAT/ATO/00001Also, depending on the state your property is located in, property that is being used as your main residence may be exempt from land tax even if it is owned by a trust. I think this is the situation in QLD, but not sure.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
See your broker for further details.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I don't think it sounds crazy. It is a good idea that can save you money and give some asset protection. You just need to make sure you set it up well.
Also consider the trust may be able to provide furniture, get the lawns mowed, repairs etc.
There are some disadvantages such as:
– probably more land tax
– greater accounting fees
– eventually rents must rise and you could be paying tax on something you otherwise wouldn't
– greater complexity
– CGT on your own home which would normally not apply (but you are not losing this benefit as you can still claim the other house as the main residence).Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
It sounds like you have a company as trustee. I am not sure but suspect this company is trading as trustee so the trust is the owner of the business. You would need a new one set up to protect the assets.
If your company is trading in its own right, and the trust is owner of the shares then the same trust could own property – as if it is just a shareholder it couldn't be held liable for the company's debt other than the value of the shares. Unless you have two companies, you are probably operating under the company as trustee model – which means although they are separate for tax reasons they are essentially one legal entity – the trustee company.
Are you sure your children are the only beneficairies? This would be unusual. Usually there are named beneficaries and non named. eg grand children, cousins, spouses of children etc. You yourself are also probably a beneficiary.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Pootie Tang wrote:Hi,I am new to the site and investing in property.
I have a few questions and will try to keep it simple.
My background is as follows:
My husband and I have recently set up a Family Trust structure with us both as Directors. The income flowing through the trust is generated via fees for services with very little expenses and a generous net income per year which our accountant will distribute to ourselves and our four children.We only have one property (which is too small for us) and want to purchase another PPoR and rent out our current PPoR (selling it within 6 years to avoid CGT).
I am looking at the Trust purchasing a property (that we intend on never selling) and renting from the Trust, however I still need some clarification on the following:1. At arms length – would we satisfy this ruling?
2. Carrying forward losses if the property is negative geared – does this mean that the losses from the property can be offset against the other trust income before distribution?I am looking to further reduce the Trusts taxable income and start investing in property.
I will be seeking my accountants advice, but would love to hear what anyone thinks or suggest.
Hi Pootie
There are a few things you need to consider if renting from a trust.
1. The first is the ATO. They have issued rulings about renting from your own unit trust, but they seem to be ok in general when renting from a discretionary trust. Just make sure you discuss wtih your advisor as there is a chance they could claim it is a scheme.
2. The second is the legal implications. The trust assets are not your own and you should not treat them as your own. The trustee has duties towards the beneficiaries to act in their best interests etc etc. If you keep everything at market rates then you will probably be fine, but you had better check with your lawyer as you don't want a beneficairy making a claim years down the track.
3. It is generally not a good idea for a trust conducting a business to own property. If the business is sued then the property make be attacked by creditors. it would be much better to set up a new trust to own the property. The business trust would then be able to distribute income to the property trust to offset any losses first and then the left over to the individual beneficaires etc. But you will also need advice on this too, as it is a complex area that many don't understand – eg if a new trust has a vesting date after the old trust you may be infringing against the laws against perpetuities. This can be avoided by making the vesting date of the new trust before the old, but this will limit its life too with further consequences. This will also depend on which state you trust is governed by.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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JacM wrote:I think you'll find that to avoid the CGT, you will have to be living in the house when you sell it. The 6 year rule merely means you have 6 years to move back in to do this tax dodge. However if you've moved to another house and declared it your PPOR, and turned the first house into an IP, then you will not be selling CGT free…Also not correct. see s118-145 ITAA 1936 for the 6 year rule. No need to be living in the house when you sell to claim the exemption.
If you claim another house as the main residence during this time then you can't get the exemption on both for the same period, but you could chose which one you wish to claim the exemption on. (note no exemption on trust owned)
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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JacM wrote:You won't be able to negative gear the 1st place. Not the loan interest anyway… because the original purpose of the loan was not for investment.This is not really correct Jac. The original purpose of the loan was to purchase the house. If the house is rented out the loan would usually be deductible – assuming there were no subsequent redraws for personal expenses.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
If you want specific answers you should be talking to your specialist solicitor and paying for it.
My guess:
1. $5k – do you mean this is the fee you will pay the vendor for selling you the option?
2. Do you mean $30k or $730? $705,000 profit is pretty good!
3. I think the name will be the one entering the agreement to purchase. This can be decided later when the option is oging ot be exercised. If you put your name you will be up for stamp duty on the value of the property as will the end purchaser.
4. You would pay stamp duty on the $5k option and the developer on the contract price (sale of land) or the value.
5. a) when taking out the option. b) at settlement or within 3 months of exchange.
6. It could be, but you may not get the 50% discount so it probably won't matter if it classed as income (unless you have capital losses.
7. don't think gst would apply
8.
9. see 3.Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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