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I would say so.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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you will be losing your CGT exemption on the portion of the property rented out. A few dollars saved in tax now could cost you thousands down the track.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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most brokers don't even know what a trust is!
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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If you are thinking of using the mums property to get a loan it won:t be that easy, especially if she is not working. lenders are extremely reluctant to do this.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Firstly, there is a section in the tax act which says that transfers under market value are assessed at market value for CGT. Same with Stamp duty. So ddrawing up a low price contract won:t really help.
But you can still do things such as vendor finance. eg it is worth $500,000 but you pay $250,000 on settlement and giving the owner one unit valued at $300,000 when you complete construction. Title would chance to your name on settlement. This is easy in theory, but hard in practice as the banks may not like it with you not putting any of your hard earned cash into the deal and the seller will also want a mortgage to protect his interests.
For the vendor I think CGT would apply on the $250k and the value of the unit. Bt I am not sure how it could be applied as there may be a year or two between him receiving the unit and the cash.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Thats right Dan. You will only be able to borrow a certain % of both properties – usually up to 90 or 95%. So I think Mick has to keep saving and/or wait for some growth to kick in.
Using a trust won:t help in this regard.
A trust is easy to set up – You could draw up a deed yourself or do a verbal declaration of trust – but you will want something that is professionally done and this will cost you around $1000 plus you will need some advice on how to use it, get TFN, ABN etc. You may even need a company to operate as trustee and that will cost another $800 or so. Then there may be stamp duty on the trust – this is $550 in NSW now, but may be nil in other states.
Running costs may not be much more than you are paying now. Most accountants charge a fee per property so adding properties in your own name adds to the fees – a trust with a few properties would cost around the same as an individual with a few properties. It may be a bit more if it gets more complicated later on.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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dreamteam wrote:I'm re-reading chapter 9 of Steve McKnight's first book '0-130 properties in 3.5 years' about structuring prior to purchasing investment property. To set up a Family Trust as the most advantageous structure seems a no-brainer on reading this chapter.However.
p. 175 says that if I already have significant debt it is of little use. Yes, that would be me:
I own one PPoR (own name) and one IP (tenant in common with partner).
Combined income including IP income: around $130,000
Debt: $600,000
Equity: $600,000Furthermore, aside from the $1500 or so set-up costs plus $1000 p.a. ongoing costs to administer, my accountant also pointed out that if I purchase IP's using a Family Trust then there is no land-tax exempt threshold as there is with ownership as an individual. This means that if I buy a property I have to pay land tax ragardless of it's unimproved land value if I buy it through a Trust but as an individual I don't pay land tax until a certain threshold is reached (at around $350,000 unimproved land value).
So what route should I take? Family Trust or individual?
That sounds strange and incorrect even – re existing?debt levels. Existing debt levels shouldn:t have any bearing on future purchases using a trust.
$1000 pa to run sounds expensive too.
Also did you accountant tell you that any losses are trapped in the trust and you cannot offset them against your personal income? This and the land tax are what usually makes it not worthwhile for most people.
Whether it is worth it for you or not – you should make a spreadsheet and do some calcs both buying in a trust and in personal names and see what the differences will be. Also consider the asset protection benefits.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
What do you mean by vendor finance?
If you are talking about only giving the owner part of the amount upfront and the rest later then this is essentially the vendor lending you money. Your purchase price will be the full amount agreed upon. Title will transfer at settlement and the vendor will be liable for CGT then in the tax return for that financial year.
If you are giving them cash and units then I think it CGT will be based on market value of the cash and hte units together. Title will change from them to you and then partially back to them again, stamp duty too. There is a way around this possibly, but it won:t work if a loan will be needed – unless you can get them to guarantee your loan.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
nope.
Talk to your accountant about tax issue, but i htink you can just claim the interest yourself.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
A post mortum sub division?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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I would take out a LOC on the existing house and just use that as the 20% deposit. Use an IO loan?for the remainder with a 100% offset attached.
Whatever you do don:t go and get wages etc placed into the LOC as this will make problems later.
When the new property has increased in value you can get it revalued and repay the deposit used from the LOC.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Dont take tax advice from a broker! Lucky you know he is wrong, but I wonder how many other people have been scared off by him!!
I feel the same about the market. It seems overheated – but Sydney will always be growing in poplulation over the short term at least.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
How are you going to develop it if they still have the title?
Anyway, I think starting construction on the property will remove the CGT exemption by shifting the cost base to current value.
Paying them too much for the other house they will still be assessed at market rates for CGT and Stamp Duty purposes.
If they moved into the rental now then it could be exempt from further CGT – but unless they lived in it in the last 6 years it woudn:t be exempt for any CG up until now.Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
zeph34 wrote:If I get an IO loan, and pay only interest, but put the extra part of the repayments into the offset account, the end repayments would be the same (obviously they would drop considerably if I put more than just the "standard" repayments into the offset)?This would be correct in terms of interest payable – in Theory. You will end up with large sums of cash in your offset and what happens is that many people go out and spend it, when otherwise they wouldn:t. So you need to be disciplined or it could be worse off in the end.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
No sure why you would want to double your risk and add your wife to the loan/guarantee. If the investment doesn:t work you both sink with the ship then. It also will hurt further borrowing capacity. It may be necessary for the LOC as both names are on title, but not for the investment.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Deductions?will depend on what the money is used for and who is the owner of the asset being purchased.
eg if you buy a property in your name only you will claim the deductions. If you use a wife as guarantor it won:t matter for the claiming of deductions, you will still g et all the deductions and profits/losses.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Keiko
Not sure, I stopped broking a while back. It was pretty near impossible to get a loan at 95% a while ago.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Sounds good, but why a LOC for the IP? you can get into trouble using these
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
That sounds a bit drastic – to transfer a house and incur stamp duty just because of fears of PSI. I think there are probably other ways around it and transferrign the house probably wont resolve the problems anyway. Maybe get a second and third opinion.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Sounds dangerous to me. eg. what happens if the hot water system needs replacing??Your?Positive geared property suddenly becomes negative and you have no potential of growth – so whats the point?
What are the rates, repairs etc all adding up to?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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