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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    young n wrote:

    Terry, are you sure there would be no tax payable if my mother simply moved $300000 from her account into mine?

    Terry, where can i find detailed infomation about discretionary trusts?

    I would have a hard time finding a place in darwin that i could buy outright for $300000. I could probably find an older unit, for 400000 or so. which is why i was excited about the office block, as i could buy it outright and it paid a very good return. But i understand that i may have underestimated the risks involved with commercial propperty. 

    When you suggested i buy a ppor, do you mean in the name of a trust and then rent it back to myself? if that is possible / legal? wouldnt it be unwise to be paying for interest that is not tax deductable?

    i was under the impression that if i had a a large deposit such as 300000, i wouldnt have much trouble getting a loan from the bank, especially if i was buying something under 600000 as the bank could easily recoup there money by selling the property were i to default is this incorrect?

    I guess i do really need to do some hard homework, can any body advise what i should read, and or the basic things i need to consider when buying an investment propperty? Sorry, i think i should have kept in the shadows a bit longer as it is dawning on me how little i know about all this :P.

    thanks again for everybodys time, in providing me with quick responses.

     

    in Australia there is no gift tax. So if your mother gifted you $300,000 there would be no tax on this. But there may be other issues such as centrelink benefits, asset protection and there may be better ways to do it from a tax point of view, so you should see a tax advisor.

    Also you said the money was your inheritance, and your mum was just holding it – this means your mum is holding it as trustee for you and you are the real owner.

    I meant to get a PPOR in your own name. This is the only asset you can get which is virtually GCT free. so you would be giving up a lot of profit to not have one. You can even rent the PPOR and have it CGT. This is why I think everyone should have at least one PPOR.

    You could use all of your cash to get this and then to reborrow it. So the interest would be deductible if it is subsequently borrowed and used for investment purposes. You would also have a low loan balance which would mean the repayments would be much cheaper than renting.

     

    It is legal and possible to rent a house from your own trust – but this would not be CGT exempt, nor possibly Land Tax exempt. Itis ok to do in the short term, but over time the rents would increase and your trust may end up paying tax on the rent you pay it – where if it was in your own name there would be none. Interest paid on the loan would be deductible to the trust – and the rent would be income. Also trusts cannot distribute losses.

     

    The bigger the deposit you have the easier it would be to get a loan, but the banks must still make sure you can afford to repay it. They have a legal obligation to. So you will still need to show employment and income. Maybe you could go fulltime just before getting the loan and then change back again.

     

     

     

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Its not really the price at issue but the size of the property. Depending on whether it is income producing etc you may need 40 to 50% deposit.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Never mind, the interest on $30k won't be too much. Just don't pay down any more.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Which state?

    Tony Cordato in NSW, Sydney.

    lewis O'Brien in Vic

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    i find it very hard to read capitals, so i only skimmed it.

    Did you say you are casual? then how do you plan on getting finance for this?

    I would suggest you also look at using a discretionary trust for asset protection and tax flexibility. This will also help with the getting of finance by allowing you to easily add people to guarantee loans if need be,

    Maybe buy a PPOR out right, or as high LVR as you can and then reborrow it to invest.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    There is no such thing as gift tax in Australia???

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Paul R wrote:
    How do you come to that conclusion?

    size!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You are ahead in your repayments so you could ask your lender about a repayment holiday for 6 months. let the loan capitalise up a bit – only necessary if you are going to move out soon. better to have $7k for the new home than the old.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    ryan mclean wrote:
    Sometimes lenders will only lend 80% LVR because it goes through their business section For a first deal buying in your own name is sometimes more straightforward and less complicated.

    This would generally only be for those trusts with corporate trustee.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    dreamteam wrote:
    And the disadvantages are: Cost to set up (say, $1500) ongoing costs (say $1000 p.a.) more paperwork & reporting cannot negative gear ie.offset losses against other income pay land tax regardless with no tax free threshold Have I missed anything?

    Legal Complexity
    Tax complexity

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    redraw = reborrowing.
    deposit = repayment

    Deductibility depends on the purpose the funds are used for.

    ATO may never find out of course. They do sometimes send out questionaires to property owners asking a number of questions including asking if any loans have been increased.

    Do you mean you will pay more interest for the loan with the offset? if not it may be worth changing. Your loan should be interest only too.

    Do the sums, maybe it is worthwhile putting the money in an ING account in the name of a low income earning spouse if you have one.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    yes. that is possible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Asset protection
    Tax flexibility
    Estate planning flexibility
    Finance flexibility
    easy to transfer control without changing title

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    no

    You will have two loans, $200,000 and $30,000. Interest will only be deductible based on the purpose of the borrowings. If $30,000 was spent on the property it might be deductible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    i think i should have said "wear the losses"

    If you are serious about investing then use a trust, even if it may cost you a bit extra in taxes in the early stages as the long term benefits will out weight the short term costs.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    There is no structure where you can have asset protection, max tax flexibility and negative gear your personal income. (there is if you are self employed).

    I personally would probably where the losses early on as the long term benefits will be great.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Discretionary trusts are the greatest vehicle to own appreciating assets. But they do have some disadvantages in the early stages. If you can get through that hurdle you will be laughing.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Seek professional tax advise on this strategy:

    Set up a LOC on your home loan on the spare equity. Borrow from this LOC to pay the shortfall on hte investment property and possibly the whole interest on this loan. Use the cash that you would have paid for the investment by placing it in a 100% offset account against your home loan. Put all wages and rents into the PPOR offset. Change both loans to IO too.

    This will rapidly increase your tax deductions and free up cash.

    seek tax advice as you need to set it up correctly for it to work.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    If he lives in it first before renting and later moves out it is possible to rent it out and retain the CGT for a period of up to 6 years. If he moves in again before the 6 year period and then out again the period starts  again.

    If he moved in and then out and decides not to rent it but to leave it empty then he could keep it CGT free indefinitely.

    There are a few provisos.

    see section 118-145 ITAA 1997

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    With unit trusts the entitlements are fixed. The trust consists of unit holders who own fixed percentages. All profits go to the unit holders in proportion to their holdings. The units could be held by an individual, company or discretionary trust. Unit trusts are generally good for two or more separate parties to go into a venture together as they can have fixed shares of the profits.

    Discretionary trusts are trusts where the trustee decides each year who to give the income of the trust to and what amounts. This makes things flexible as one year the trustee may give to a beneficiary who has a low income – each adult can earn up to $16,000 pa tax free. So if you had 2 kids at uni you may be able to have a trust income of $32,000 and pay no tax on it. This is also the best way for asset protection as no one beneficiary has an entitlement of income of the trust – only a mere expectancy. So if a beneficiary goes bankrupt, the trustee would just avoid giving them any income of the trust until they come out of bankruptcy (otherwise it would go to their creditors). This isn't the case with a unit trust as the entitlements are fixed.

    No trust can distribute losses, but this was gotten around by a person borrowing to buy income producing units of a unit trust or a hybrid.

    Hybrids are a mixed trust with a discretionary component and a discretionary component. The ATO has no problem with them if they are used in a proper commercial manner. The problem is some promotors seemed to be saying A could borrow to buy units but the trustee could give the income to B. the ATO's view is that why would A borrow to buy units if they had no or little chance of getting any income from the trust.

    So if you set up the hybrid so that the unit holder has to get the income and captial gains in proportion to the units held then you could probably negative gear with the trust. The trouble with this is no asset protection and no flexibility. However, it still may be worth considering as the trust could redeem the units later on and the trust will become a full discreitonary trust without needing to change the ownership and paying stamp duty. But CGT would be applicable on the transfer of the units.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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