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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    Not really correct.

    A company is a separate tax entity to a trust. Each is a separate person for tax purposes and has to file its own tax return.

    If your company makes $50,000 profit and a trust looses $50,000 from negative gearing, the company income can't offset the loss of the trust with the net result an income of $0.

    What will happen is the company has to pay tax of 30% of $50,000 ($15,000) and the trust's loss has to roll over to next year to be offset by any positive income. If none it keeps rolling over.

    Companies also cannot distribute income flexibly like you have mentioned. The company would have to employ you to distribute money to you, or you would have to own shares and get a dividend. The same with the kids, but depending on their ages they may be taxed at around 66% on unearned income.

    Maybe your company is a trustee of a trust??? This would be different. Your company would only be acting as the legal owner and it is really the trust that is running the business.

    if this is the case then it would be dangerous to put the investment property into the same trust as the business. but if you did the loss of the property could be used to offset the income of the business because it is all with the same tax entity.

    A better way to do it would be for the trust to own shares of the company with the company operating in its own right (not as trustee). Shareholders generally cannot be sued for actions of the company. So when the company operates, it is run by the husband (keep wife out of it) with a small wage paid to the husband, expenses taken out and then the profit distributed to the trust.

    It may even be wise to have a separate trust to own the property and a different one to own the shares. The first trust would make a profit and then this would be distributed to the second one.

    Also you should note that adults can earn up to $16,000 pa tax free now and kids around $3,600 pa tax free.

    all this needs careful set up – and implementation as there a lots of issues such as family trust elections etc.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213

    Just keep reading and maybe attend a few seminars – but don't bother wasting money paying for any at this stage.

    Remember only a fool learns from their own mistakes, a wise person learns from the mistakes of others.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    young n wrote:

    Terry, are you sure there would be no tax payable if my mother simply moved $300000 from her account into mine?

    Terry, where can i find detailed infomation about discretionary trusts?

    I would have a hard time finding a place in darwin that i could buy outright for $300000. I could probably find an older unit, for 400000 or so. which is why i was excited about the office block, as i could buy it outright and it paid a very good return. But i understand that i may have underestimated the risks involved with commercial propperty. 

    When you suggested i buy a ppor, do you mean in the name of a trust and then rent it back to myself? if that is possible / legal? wouldnt it be unwise to be paying for interest that is not tax deductable?

    i was under the impression that if i had a a large deposit such as 300000, i wouldnt have much trouble getting a loan from the bank, especially if i was buying something under 600000 as the bank could easily recoup there money by selling the property were i to default is this incorrect?

    I guess i do really need to do some hard homework, can any body advise what i should read, and or the basic things i need to consider when buying an investment propperty? Sorry, i think i should have kept in the shadows a bit longer as it is dawning on me how little i know about all this :P.

    thanks again for everybodys time, in providing me with quick responses.

     

    in Australia there is no gift tax. So if your mother gifted you $300,000 there would be no tax on this. But there may be other issues such as centrelink benefits, asset protection and there may be better ways to do it from a tax point of view, so you should see a tax advisor.

    Also you said the money was your inheritance, and your mum was just holding it – this means your mum is holding it as trustee for you and you are the real owner.

    I meant to get a PPOR in your own name. This is the only asset you can get which is virtually GCT free. so you would be giving up a lot of profit to not have one. You can even rent the PPOR and have it CGT. This is why I think everyone should have at least one PPOR.

    You could use all of your cash to get this and then to reborrow it. So the interest would be deductible if it is subsequently borrowed and used for investment purposes. You would also have a low loan balance which would mean the repayments would be much cheaper than renting.

     

    It is legal and possible to rent a house from your own trust – but this would not be CGT exempt, nor possibly Land Tax exempt. Itis ok to do in the short term, but over time the rents would increase and your trust may end up paying tax on the rent you pay it – where if it was in your own name there would be none. Interest paid on the loan would be deductible to the trust – and the rent would be income. Also trusts cannot distribute losses.

     

    The bigger the deposit you have the easier it would be to get a loan, but the banks must still make sure you can afford to repay it. They have a legal obligation to. So you will still need to show employment and income. Maybe you could go fulltime just before getting the loan and then change back again.

     

     

     

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Its not really the price at issue but the size of the property. Depending on whether it is income producing etc you may need 40 to 50% deposit.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Never mind, the interest on $30k won't be too much. Just don't pay down any more.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Which state?

    Tony Cordato in NSW, Sydney.

    lewis O'Brien in Vic

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    i find it very hard to read capitals, so i only skimmed it.

    Did you say you are casual? then how do you plan on getting finance for this?

    I would suggest you also look at using a discretionary trust for asset protection and tax flexibility. This will also help with the getting of finance by allowing you to easily add people to guarantee loans if need be,

    Maybe buy a PPOR out right, or as high LVR as you can and then reborrow it to invest.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    There is no such thing as gift tax in Australia???

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Paul R wrote:
    How do you come to that conclusion?

    size!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You are ahead in your repayments so you could ask your lender about a repayment holiday for 6 months. let the loan capitalise up a bit – only necessary if you are going to move out soon. better to have $7k for the new home than the old.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    ryan mclean wrote:
    Sometimes lenders will only lend 80% LVR because it goes through their business section For a first deal buying in your own name is sometimes more straightforward and less complicated.

    This would generally only be for those trusts with corporate trustee.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    dreamteam wrote:
    And the disadvantages are: Cost to set up (say, $1500) ongoing costs (say $1000 p.a.) more paperwork & reporting cannot negative gear ie.offset losses against other income pay land tax regardless with no tax free threshold Have I missed anything?

    Legal Complexity
    Tax complexity

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    redraw = reborrowing.
    deposit = repayment

    Deductibility depends on the purpose the funds are used for.

    ATO may never find out of course. They do sometimes send out questionaires to property owners asking a number of questions including asking if any loans have been increased.

    Do you mean you will pay more interest for the loan with the offset? if not it may be worth changing. Your loan should be interest only too.

    Do the sums, maybe it is worthwhile putting the money in an ING account in the name of a low income earning spouse if you have one.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    yes. that is possible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Asset protection
    Tax flexibility
    Estate planning flexibility
    Finance flexibility
    easy to transfer control without changing title

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    no

    You will have two loans, $200,000 and $30,000. Interest will only be deductible based on the purpose of the borrowings. If $30,000 was spent on the property it might be deductible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    i think i should have said "wear the losses"

    If you are serious about investing then use a trust, even if it may cost you a bit extra in taxes in the early stages as the long term benefits will out weight the short term costs.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You can't have your cake and eat it too.

    There is no structure where you can have asset protection, max tax flexibility and negative gear your personal income. (there is if you are self employed).

    I personally would probably where the losses early on as the long term benefits will be great.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Discretionary trusts are the greatest vehicle to own appreciating assets. But they do have some disadvantages in the early stages. If you can get through that hurdle you will be laughing.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Seek professional tax advise on this strategy:

    Set up a LOC on your home loan on the spare equity. Borrow from this LOC to pay the shortfall on hte investment property and possibly the whole interest on this loan. Use the cash that you would have paid for the investment by placing it in a 100% offset account against your home loan. Put all wages and rents into the PPOR offset. Change both loans to IO too.

    This will rapidly increase your tax deductions and free up cash.

    seek tax advice as you need to set it up correctly for it to work.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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