Forum Replies Created
hi
you are fairly highly geared. But many people are. ideally, It is good to have a buffer as Jac says, I think you should sit down and make up some scenario spreadsheets and projections and see how you would go in terms of cashflow.
Getting the loan may be possible if you borrow high, and I would suggest you don't use the offset money but to deposit this into your home loan and then set up a large LOC. If you just were to use the offset money this would mean higher interest on your home and less tax deductions.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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I had a look at the website and they seem to be setting up self managed super funds. Maybe you misunderstood what they were doing, but it probably involves transferring your super to a fund you set up your self and then that fund investing in property. You are still faces with having your super locked away until retirement, but you can control it more.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Not stamp duty, or legals – they can only be claimed as capital expenses when you sell. Borrowing costs can be claimed over 5 years -this would include LMI and I think maybe registration of title and mortgage – not sure on these.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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It is the ownership that is most important, not the names on the loan. (if both on title both will need to be on the loan anyway, if one on title you could have the loan in one name or both). Changing the loan will not result in any asset protection advantages or tax advantages.
Changing ownership from 2 to 1 will no result in any major asset protection advantages. There was a barrister called cummins who did this in 1974 and went bankrupt about 2000. The bankruptcy trustee was able to get at his half of the house almost 30 years later.
One asset protection strategy is to mortgage your house up as high as possible – but a bankruptcy trustee will look at the flow of funds too and would ask where did the money go – it may then be possible to claw it back.
For the loans I would suggest not using a LOC for the existing loan. use a IO loan with 100% offset as this is far superior.
For any equity you can use a LOC. But this should never be used for storing personal cash. Just let it sit there until you find an investment property and then take the deposit and costs of this property from the LOC. The investment property loan itself can be taken with the same bank or different and this should also be interest only.
The structure for the investment property is worth looking at. Ideally a discretionary trust should be used, but you have to weigh up the implications of land tax and if there is a loss the fact that this loss will not help you save tax against your personal income. This will provide the greatest asset protection. but even then there will be risks as the deposit you provide will be able to come under attack and then the contributions to the trust and any work you do for the trust – if you go down these can also be clawed back from the trust.
Trusts don't get the PPOR CGT exemption either.
Trusts won't allow personal negative gearing – their losess belong to the trust and can offset other trust income.
Trusts will allow the great tax flexibility in the long run but will cost in the short term.Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
anelxander wrote:Hi hangingupsidedown,How did you go with your plan?
I found your case really interesting because my partner and I are making up our minds on how to maximise all the existing options as I can see you guys want to do (leverage). In our case we're a gay couple, we're migrants, so we're not getting married anyway, which could be an advantage maybe yes, maybe no, maybe there's no difference. That's what I am still trying to understand.
My plan so far could be (it has to be revised) to buy a off the plan investment property, then each one would buy a house using the FHOG if possible.
It would be great to know how things worked out for you both.
Cheers
Alex
Hi Alex
I think you will find that same sex couples are treated the same as non-same sex (??) couples and that you would only get one FHOG per couple. You would need to look at the definition of couple/spouse in in the FHOG Act in the state you intend to buy in.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
An option is just an agreement which allows the option holder to purchase the property at some time in the future.
A lease/option is just a term to describe a situation where a person has a lease with an option to buy as well. There are heaps of different ways in which these can be structured. I have seen some which are over 30 years with the strike price (at which the tenant can buy the property) going down like a PI loan. so after 30 years of paying rent they can purchase the property for $1 – they can also purchase at any time at a gradually reducing amount.
Or the option could be drawn up so that they pay market rate as determined by a valuation by HTW or market rate less 10%. You could charge higher rent and have part of this rent come off the strike price or you could charge normal rent with a fixed strike price and a option term of, say, 6 months.
It all comes down to your imagination and whatever you are able to negotiate.
BTW, you should consider the 2 different sides of options – selling and buying. Developers mainly buy, while LO people will be selling an option.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Sounds like you don't fully comprehend IO loans -thats ok it took me about 5 years to get my head around them.
The first thing you need to understand is the tax savings. The fact that you are paying PI means that you are paying down the loan. This is generally good but on an investment loan it means your tax deductions are decreasing. This extra you are paying could be put to better use by paying down your non deductible loan first. This would reduce the interest which isn't deductible and also leave the investment loan high so that your tax deductions would remain high. Overall you would be paying the same amount.
Once you pay off your personal home loan then you can look at using PI loans on investments – but still I would suggest you use IO loans and use the extra money that you would have been paying to buy more properties.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
One of the main ideas behind using IO loans is not poisoning your money by changing the tax deductibility of loans – but there are also many other benefits such as lower repayments which means you can afford more.
Don't worry about making individual properties cashflow positive – worry about the overall situation. And using the offset account/IO option will also enable a property to be cashflow positive but without the tax consequences of using a PI loan.
in regards to the LAQC, Australia is a bit different than NZ. Companies and trusts here cannot distribute losses and so a loss in a company or trust cannot offset your personal income. Losses in companies or trusts will need to be carried forward and can be used to offset future incomes.
Also it is not wise to use a company to own realestate because of the lack of asset protection and the tax situation here. Companies cannot get the 50% CGT reduction which is available to individuals and can be accessed through trusts as well. Its best to use a discretionary trust to own property – with a company as trustee.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Sounds like your broker has cost you a fortune in extra tax. I would seek a new broker who knows what they are doing and try to fix it asap before you go any further.
2 Properties under one loan is an absolute disaster – especially as one is an investment. Every repayment you make will be reducing your investment loan as well as your personal home loan. This means more tax. which means wasting money!
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Kalkat wrote:Hi
We are new to investing and bought a property last year. Can someone tell me about trusts and when you should set one up please?
Cheers
KalkatThey can be set up at any time, but you really should do it before you purchase the property.
If you want to transfer an existing property you own into a trust you will be up for:
– stamp duty
– legals
– CGT
– new loans /exit fees from the old etc.
and have much less asset protection for the property.Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Let me explain further about the use of an IO loan and putting money in an offset account.
Firstly, if you have non deductible debt you would be better off paying this down first rather than paying extra into an investment loan or into an offset on an investment loan. This is because personal debt is non deductible. Every cent paid into an investment loan means less deductions which means more tax so its best to reduce non deductible interest rather than paying more tax.
Next, even if you have no personal debt I think it is generally not a good idea to use a PI loan or to pay extra on an investment. By using a PI loan you are reducing the loan balance and locking your money away. These extra funds paid are trapped in the loan – from a tax perspective. You may be able to access the funds via redraw but there will be adverse tax consequences.
The good news is that you can still save the same amount of interest by placing excess funds in the offset account instead of the loan.
eg. $100,000 loan and you come into $50,000 cash. You have 2 options
A. pay down the loan to $50,000. Good news you think as you only have a loan of $50,000 and you only pay interest on this. But you suddenly need the $50,000 as you plan on upgrading to a bigger home or need to buy a new car etc. So you redraw the $50,000.
You have a loan of $100,000 as before the deposit, but now only interest on $50,000 is deductible because the 2nd $50,000 redrawn is to be used as deposit on a personal item. Interest on personal borrowings is not deductible.
B. Now say you had a IO loan with a 100% offset account. You retain the loan balance of $100,000 and place the $50,000 in the offset account. Now you only pay interest on $50,000, so you save the same amount as in A (assuming rates etc are the same).
When you want to use the money you just take it out of the offset and use it. There are no tax consequences as your loan hasn't moved. The interest payable will go up when the money is withdrawn and all the interest should be deductible as it was before.
Interest on $50,000 would be around $3,500 pa. Tax saved on this may be around $1000 pa give or take depending on yoru income. so it is a fairly serious issue -especially when you consider the compounding effect over the life of a loan. You could be using this money to save non-deductible interest on your home loan.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
itsandrew wrote:Hi Paul,I have been following this as an interested observer and appreciate the information you provide on the forums.
One thing I haven't got clear yet is the difference between Lease/Options and Instalment Contracts and/or Second Mortgages. And why are the lease/options exempt?
Regards,
Andrew
Lease options would be exempt because there is no lending involved. You are just agreeing to sell the property to someone at a future point in time.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Ben and Mina wrote:i have a quick question regarding that sandra,does this mean i can set my ip mortgages to IO, and each week make a manual payment that will vary depending how much i want to throw at it and not be penalised, but if i choose not to dont have to? i assume avid investors prefer to do it this way or something similar?
thank you for posting
BenAs long as you are covering the interest each month this would be possible. A better way would be to just pay the interest and to keep any excess in the offset account.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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he said he was contracting. That would class as self employed, but he has to be careful about overcoming the PSI rules so should seek professional advice.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
No, the whole amount will not be deductible.
Deductibility will depend on what the borrowed funds are used for. Taking money from redraw is reborrowing – so the interest on this portion will only be deductible if used for investment/business purposes – you will be using it to purchase a new owner occupied property.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Talk to a tax advisor about setting up a proper business structure. As you are self employed there are opportunities for you to 'share' your income with your spouse and reduce your income tax straight away. You could also set up a discretionary trust to purchase houses (forget hybrids). You won't need to worry about losses if you can divert some of the business income into the trust. You will need good advice because of the tax and legal issues involved.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
You are highly geared with little room to move.
Have you considered moving out and renting? You will probably find something similar to what you are in now for much less per week than the loan. You will also be able to get tax savings by negative gearing your current home – and can do so without CGT implications for up to 6 years.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
maybe he is 64 years old?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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STUART WILSON wrote:HELLO,
I am 27 yrs old and starting to look at testing the waters of investing in property,
My motivation is simply an interest in property and the possibility to enjoy a diciplined social life while funding a principle place of residence and have an investment property or 2.
My position in a nutshell is that 5 years ago i purchased a unit in penrith nsw , i borrowed 170,000 then and now owe 130,000
The unit is valued at 200,000 and if it were to be rented it would return $220 a week
I have very basic concepts of the negative gearing principle but i have to re-finance in 4 months and my partner and i are looking to buy a principle place of residence for around 300,000 and dont think we will particularly be able to come up with a sufficient deposit in time.
So i am looking for any advice as to what is the best way to handle the re-mortgaging situation keeping in mind if renting out my unit is a good option
Thanks alot
You probably realise now that you shouldn't have paid down the loan – you have locked up $40,000 in an investment property which means you need to reborrow it to use on the new PPOR. This may cost you around $800 pa in extra tax. over 30 years with compounding this could be costly.
So learn from your mistake and take a IO loan for the new property. Don't pay the loan down in case you move out later. Use a 100% offset account to save interest instead.
For the deposit I would set up a new loan on the unit, borrow as much as you can and get this as a separate loan. Use this as deposit and get a 3rd loan for the remainder. Use only the new property to secure the 3rd loan and only the 1st property to secure the 1st and 2nd.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Well, since you are renting you don't need to worry about spoiling your CGT exempt status of the house. So you could have one room set aside for storage or office etc and may be able to claim a % of the rent/electricity/water etc. Maybe even toilet paper and, tea, coffee, milk and tim tams for 'clients'
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au



