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Why do you want to value?
If to sell then you can use a real estate agent and see what you can get for it.
If for tax reasons then you will need a registered valuer.
If for borrowing then you will need to talk to a bank who will instruct a valuer.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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You may be able to get a loan on the existing property and/or new property and use this to purchase the new one. Rental income from the new one can be included and will help you service. You can then settle and try to sell the existing one. You may also be able to borrow a bit extra to cover some of the expenses during the cross over period.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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ok, thanks.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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I am not trying to be difficult, but would love to know how you are getting the stamp duty exemption. I had a quick read of the Duties act and cannot find any exemptions which would qualify. I am a solicitor but don't do conveyancing and have no experience with rural properties, but it would be good to know.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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rusty05 wrote:Terry,
From what I understand the exemption applies for rural properties to allow farmers to pass farms onto their children. It applies to their children only, and not transactions between siblings or other relatives. I just had a quick look on the ATO site and couldn't find it but I know it's there somewhere. Our solicitor gave us some paperwork on it and it outlines the ATO section number so when you have that it is easy to find. It is a liilte ambiguous though so I had our solicitor do the research. I'll dig it up and let you know.Jack, thanks so much, I'll PM you!
Rusty,
Are you talking stamp duty on the transfer or CGT on the disposal by your parents? Stamp duty is a State based tax administered by the Office of State Revenue. CGT is a Commonwealth Tax administered by the ATO.
There are special concessions for CGT for primiary producers where the property has been held for xx years and the person is xx years old etc. Possibly no CGT would be payable.
But this would not affect stamp duty and would still apply if the purchaser is a trustee.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Rusty
I would be interested in learning more about the stamp duty exemption. I don't know of any exemptions for transferring land unless it is for a deceased estate or from a trustee to beneficiary. Do you have any idea how it was done, ie on what basis?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Well, sounds great Rusty. I would love 100 acres!
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I have replied to the other thread regarding this.
I think she is in potentially big trouble. partners are jointly and severably liable. So if one doesn't pay the other 2 must, if 2 don't pay the remaining partner must.
Her house is used as security for the loan. So she must keep up the repayments or lose the house.
The landlord will require the rent to be paid. If this doesn't happen and there is a default he could come after any and all of the partners (assuming they are all on the lease, or guaranteed the lease.) He could go to court and get a judgment against all. He can then chose how to enforce his judgment and recover the money owed (possibly another 6 years of rent!). He could get further court orders to sell one of more of the properties of any of the partners, seize goods, garnish wages and bank accounts etc etc.
Once you sign a lease there is generally no way out. It is like getting a loan from a bank for 10 years. You cannot just say I want out after 5 years, you are legally obliged to honor the agreement.
In this case I would suggest the friend try to get the other partners to buy her out, or offer to get her share to them for no money. The landlord will need to be approached and the lease renegotiated. The landlord is unlikely to do this unless the remaining partners are in a stronger financial position that they were at the start of the lease – he will essentially be giving up security by letting one person out.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
What state is the property located in?
How many acres?I think you should be speaking to a lawyer about the stamp duty.
And, if the farm is a hobby then you won't be able to claim any deductions. Even if it is being run as a 'business' then the ATO won't like losses year after year and they could disallow deductions under part iva if it is not being run commercially.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Thanks.
I would just be worried about refinancing out after a few years. If longer term you could use the cashflow to pay off the loans which would make it safer/
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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tfpsale wrote:I prefer you just make it into 2, half for the the IP loan and half for the PPOR loan.Why?
Firstly, 50% of the rent is unlikely to cover the IP loan.
If you are talking about paying 50% into the IP loan over and above the interest then this is not tax effective. They would be reducing their tax deductions while still having debt they could not deduct. Its like throwing money away!~
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Sounds good Troy
What sort of rates does that lender offer and how long are the loan terms?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
How far along have you got with the purchase of the farm? (my dream too!)
think you should get some advice on structure. It may be best to use a discretionary trust to hold the farm. Or a unit/discretionary combo. The main residence CGT exemption is limited to just under 5 acres so this is not much of an issue. Land tax exemptions could apply to primiary producers too.
You would then lease to a company/trust you control to run the farm.
There are a host of reasons to do this.
Then with the loans, if you are buying for $750,000 but want a loan of $600,000 it won't be easy. You will have to convince the bank that this is a related party loan and for them to base the figures at market value – otherwise they will just work on the lower of vlaue or purchase price.
Once you get into the place it will not be easy to borrow against the equity either. Most lenders have more restrictive policies for rural properties and you would be limited to 60% to 80% LVR. What the farm is doing will also affect borrowings.
Of course you still have to be able to service to set up the LOC and then be able to service the new property loan as well. It won't be easy, but may be possible.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
The offset account on the main residence is the way to go.
The reason has nothing to do with CGT (loans don't affect capital gains or CGT) but to do with deductibility of interest. You would want to reduce the amount of non-deductible interest payable before any deductible.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
How is the business loan set up? What is the security? whose name is it in?
I think her only way out is to negoitate with the landlord to remove her from the lease. But this won't be easy. The landlord is unlikely to allow it easily.
She is in a binding contract so has to see it through.
Or, possibly the lease may not be binding if it was not set up correctly or if the landlord has breached it.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I helped someone move a few months ago and it is a pain. Wouldn't want to do it twice in a few months, thats for sure.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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No CGT on the transfer of your main residence (usually). But stamp duty will apply.
CGT will apply on the sale of your unit.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
In that case all names will be on title so any change in ownership would mean change in title – such as bank accounts, leases, contracts etc. It probably won't be easy to get a name off the lease as the landlord will need to reassess the ability of the remaining partners and would be unlikelly to release someone early if the business is going bad.
If they own the property then there will be similar issues such as redoing the loan and requalifying.
Stamp duty issues too and probably capital losses and or tax losses.
A partnership is very dangerous for these reasons. If the business goes down the landlord could come after each and all of the tenants (assuming all entered into the lease). Each person's other assets will be at risk.
Do they own the building or rent?
How long to go on the lease?Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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When you say business, what is the structure? Is there a company or is it a partnership or sole trader?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Or, you sell and rent for a period of 6 months while you look for the new one.
This is the safest way, but then you have the hassle of moving twice!
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au



