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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hi SR

    I just read the whole thread now.

    What you have done is increase an existing loan. You will the use part of the loan to invest and will result in a mixed loan. There is nothing wrong with this and the interest will be deductible. If you have a $400,000 loan with $100,000 used for investment then 1/4 of the interest would be deductible.

    BUT, problems will arise when you make payments to this loan. Assume you want to pay $1000 extra repayment above the interest. Because it is a split loan then 1/4 of this repayment will need to come off the investment portion and 3/4 off the PPOR portion. This is not ideal as you will be losing tax.

    There is a way out though. The ATO will allow the split loan to be refinanced into separate portions, see TR 2002/2 para 18.
    http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=TXR/TR20002/NAT/ATO/00001

    Once you do that then get the offset on the PPOR loan A, Loan B will be IO for $100k and loan C new 80% loan for new purchase.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Paul,

    Where are you located?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    If you qualify as spouses and the property is located in VIC then you may be able to transfer it to your boyfriend without stamp duty and without CGT as it is your main residence.

    Your boyfriend could borrow 105% to buy it off you are market rates and this would free up a large amount of cash which could then be used to buy the new house. Net result = large conversion in undeductible debt to deductible debt.

    If the property is in NSW you would only be able to transfer it from 1 name to 2 without stamp duty and only if you were going to keep it as your main residence. I think the same applies in QLD.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Technically trusts should hurt the ability to borrow.

    Imagine you had a discretionary trust with $100,000 pa income and you were on a wage. The trustee of a discretionary trust as absolute discretion on who to pass this income to. So there is no guarantee that the income would come to you. Even if you are trustee there is still no guarantee you will be the beneficiary.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    auhealth wrote:
    Michael,

    Thank you for the explanation. Now I can see the problem. So if the loan is interest only, and as you guys suggested, never pay extra into the loan. the extra money will alway goes to the offset account, is it still accaptable to claim 1/4 of the interest paid for the whole loan tax deductible in ATO's view?

    Another one problem I can see now is the offset is not just for not-deductible one, but also for deductible one, which is really not a good idea. Is my understanding correct?

    Regards,
    SydneyRental

    You would want to save interest on your non-deductible loan before the deductible to increase your tax deductions.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    in NSW it is on page 1 of the contract and you need to specify on the transfer doc too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Depends on your risk tolerance.

    What about shares/? they are still low and returning good yields. banks shares are returning aroun 7% before franking credits. lots of up potential

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    avoid the non banks non building societies!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Mate, why leave it until the day of exchange?

    Some of your questions are minor, such as insurance, but some will have major ramifications for the next 30 years. e.g name on the title. You need to decide this before you enter into the contract. You will need tax and legal advice to properly decide on this issue.

    Yes, best to get IO and make sure you have a 100% offset account. Which bank are you going with?
    You cannot generally go over 95% LVR, but may be able to capitalise the LMI on top, that is all.
    You can pay the deposit via any method unless objected to in the contract. It has to go into the agent’s trust account usually.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    st81hp79 wrote:
    Thanks Terry, for adding the link.

    I googled and studied on Cumins case, and it was interesting… That means I have to get legal advice before going ahead with the transfer.

    Most definitely. Many issues to consider.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Steve,

    possibly as you are only refinancing the cc loan with the LOC loan. But to be effective you would have to have only properties expenses on the cc otherwise your payment to the cc would need to be apportioned between the private and investment expenses.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Once the LOC runs out it is up to you to keep paying the interest on it. You would have 2 choices:
    1. use cash
    2. use further borrowings

    Cash could be wages and rent or savings in your offset.
    further borrowings could be an increased LOC or a new LOC.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    If it is an undervalued transaction then under the bankruptcy act, s120 it could be clawed back for up to 5 years
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ba1966142/s120.html

    If the transfer was done to defeat creditors ie to make the property unavailable to pay creditors then indefinite under s121
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/ba1966142/s121.html

    A reason of asset protection would fall under s121 and that is why lawyers don't promote doing things for asset protection.

    There is an old case of a barrister who transferred his half of the house to his wife many years ago and then later went bankrupt owing a large tax debt. The ATO was able to get at his half share almost 20 years alter. Cumins is the case.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You will have to be very careful as the ATO could deny deductibility.

    have you seen TD 2011/D8
    http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=%22DXT%2FTD2011D8%2FNAT%2FATO%2F00001%22

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You should probably see a lawyer asap. Do you see any way out with cashflow? any money expected to come in?

    You may have to appoint an administrator to the company.

    If you are trading while insolvent then you could be personally liable – the directors could be personally liable.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    What is your reason for using the LOC to pay interest on your investment loan?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Hi Johann

    Sounds like you are in a bit of trouble.

    Are you running this through a company or sole traders?

    It sounds like you may not meet the test for solvency as you cannot meet debts when they are due and payable. You should be very careful now that you do not commit any illegal acts such as trading while insolvent.

    Do you have any equity in the busniess?

    What is the security for the business loan?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Do you mean you are taking the IP repayments from the LOC?

    Have you had advice on this or taken out a private ruling?

    If you keep going the limit will be hit on the LOC, then you will hopefully have paid down your PPOR loan by an equal or higher amount and may be able to get a new LOC or increase the existing one.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Am,

    Do you meant the LOC will slowly be used up and the funds available will be diminishing?

    That would be the case. But even then there would be no reason to pay down the LOC. You would just want to pay the interest each month. If you do start paying it down you would be diverting cash which you could otherwise use to pay down personal debt = more tax payable.

    Since interest is charged monthly i don't see any difference in paying at the end of the fin year or at the begining

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    hi ST

    At the end of the day it is bankruptcy which you are really trying to protect yourself from. If you are sued and lose then the other party will have a judgment against you for an amount of money. They can then try and get this money out of you by using a few different methods such as garnishing bank accounts, forcing the sale of properties you own etc. The final one (or even the first) is trying to make you bankrupt.

    Once you are declared bankrupt then a bankrutcy trustee will step into your shoes and then try to get as much money back for the creditors as they can. They may look at past transactions and may examine you in court about these,

    Depending on how you answer and structure things and the size of the transaction then they can try to reverse the transaction. Different time periods apply for different siutaions. eg if you know you are going down and then transfer you house to your wife for $1 then this could probably be clawed back indefinitely. If you are currently solvent and transfer $100,000 to your trust as a gift then this could possible by reversed for 3-5 years etc. If you sell to your trust and the trust pays you market value then there may be nothing to be clawed back from this transaction, but they may look at where the funds from the sale went.

    I am just going from memory here, but I think if you look at the bankruptcy act at section 120, 121 then you may find the answers. I am away at the moment.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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