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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    There are some other differences in terms of costs.

    More for legal advice and taxation advice and tax returns. Prob not much more if you are just buying a few properties.

    The major added cost is the fact that any loss incurred by the trust cannot be used to offset your personal income.

    I think a discretionary trust makes sense, especially if postive geared. Without a trust you have no flexibility. It can save you tens of thousands.

    eg. a few years ago my mate purchased in WA. I told him to look at using a discretionary trust because he was the highest income earner and his wife stay at home with no income. He wanted to negatively gear to bought in his name.
    A year later the property doubled in value so he sold it. Since it was in his name he had a $200,000 capital gain which increased his income by about $100,000. But his wife still had no income. If only he had used a trust.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Tim,

    You are right. Everyone should get tax advice from a lawyer and/or accountant.

    But have a look at ATO ID 2001/79
    http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=AID/AID200179/00001

    Issue

     

    Whether interest on funds borrowed to acquire the share of the taxpayer's spouse (the spouse) in a property, to be kept for investment purposes is deductible.

    Decision

     

    The interest is deductible under section 8-1 to the extent that the borrowed funds are used for the purposes of producing assessable income.

     

     

    But the ATO could still apply Part IVA

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    No it is not possible.

    A SMSF is prohibited from acquiring an asset from a related party. There is an exception of "business real property' but residential will not qualify.

    You couldn't even sell to a unit trust or to a mate and then resell it (not that you would with the stamp duty) because the anti avoidance provisions will capture this.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    No. But that is a good idea too. You should consider life insurance

    You need to hold the asset in the low risk name so if the high risk person goes bankrupt there is less chance of losing the house.

    This all comes in the planning on how you operate the system.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Yeah, I think you should get one in personal names to take advantage of the CGT and land tax exemptions. But, if you have a spouse it is best to get it in the name of the lower risk spouse. make an asset protection plan on how to pay for this one – ie don't contribute to it!

    Make sure the spouse has a will and that the will has an asset protection plan in place too. You would hate to be set up in business and then your spouse dies just as you were about to become bankrupt and she leaves you the house!!!!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    The bank has a duty to the owner to get the best price possible for them or they could be held liable. Therefore they will want 'market value'. This is usally achieved by going to auction – which is properly advertsied and held.

    Also, if the property has been repossessed then they would have been considerably behind in their loan, add on the expenses and legal fees and it could be a fair bit higher than what they paid for the property.

    You might also find it hard to negotiate with a bank.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Land tax is a State tax administered by the State Revenue Office in NSW. They use the values decided by some system – forget the details. SRO will notify you once you have to pay land tax. Also remember it is one threshold per person.

    With a fixed trust you could get the threshold – if it is properly set up. Not all unit trusts are fixed trusts.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    nope. An individual has a land tax free threshold of about $380,000 where they pay no land tax.

    Some other disadvantages are no negative gearing.

    I would probably suggest you look at using a fixed trust with the units held personally. Later on you can transfer the units to a discretionary trust. This will add great flexibility, but will come at a price as:
    – more complex
    – more costly to set up and maintain
    – harder to get finance

    But it is so much more flexible – you may even be able to transfer the units to your SMSF on retirement. Once there the property could be CGT free and income tax free

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Mate, that is incorrect. In NSW you will also have to factor in land tax. There are no land tax free thresholds for trusts, other than fixed trusts, so you will be paying an extra 1.6% pa.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Searches have to be ordered and received back. Sometimes there are hiccups here. For the outgoing mortgagee to be ready for discharge takes at least 2 weeks too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I would just request compensation from the developer and the electrician. See what they say. If no then I would just drop it as it is not work the hassle for about $1000. Legal costs would be more than this and you could only get back part of those costs if you win.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    42 days from today is about the 21 Dec. You are cutting it very fine (in NSW anyway). Just remember that everyone wants to settle before Christmas and the banks are overloaded with trying to get paper work out etc. Its teh most hectic time of year for this. Try for a 30 day settlement maybe.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    iPhone’s are good. But battery life is terrible and the fact that u must use iTunes and. A nd not play certain file types.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I can think of one indirect way a trust can help.

    Say you had set up a few properties purchased under a trust structure. You kept you spouse out of it completely except for being a beneficiary. After a few years your spouse has been getting income from the trust. She/he could then use this income to demonstrate to a bank their own ability to pay a loan.

    This could also be achieved by buying jointly or by setting up trusts jointly. But the difference here is that they would be on the loan or guaranteeing the loan whereas in the above structure they wouldn't.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    iphones and apple are crap!

    I have been using iphones for 6months and am going to convert to Samsung. I have just purchased a Galaxy tab 10.1 and they can do everything an ipad can do, but there is no need to use that stupid itunes at all. You just plug the thing in to your computer and copies files across. So I will be switching over my phone too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Bloody hell, the formatting changes when posted
    have a look at http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ia1987191/s21c.html

    Note, it doesn't say anything specific about time. Just that the duration of the relationship can be taken into account

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Subsection 3 came out strage, here it is with better formatting

    (3) Determination of “relationship as a couple” In determining whether 2 persons have a relationship as a couple for the purposes of subsection (2), all the circumstances of the relationship are to be taken into account, including any of the following matters that are relevant in a particular case:

    (a) the duration of the relationship,

    (b) the nature and extent of their common residence,

    (c) whether a sexual relationship exists,

    (d) the degree of financial dependence or interdependence, and any arrangements for financial support, between them,

    (e) the ownership, use and acquisition of property,

    (f) the degree of mutual commitment to a shared life,

    (g) the care and support of children,

    (h) the performance of household duties,

    (i) the reputation and public aspects of the relationship.

    No particular finding in relation to any of those matters is necessary in determining whether 2 persons have a relationship as a couple.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I was curious so looked it up for NSW

    Spouse is defined at s 6

    FIRST HOME OWNER GRANT ACT 2000

    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/fhoga2000250/s6.html

    basiclally if includes some you are legally married to or de facto to.

    for the meaning of defacto it sends you over to the Acts Interpretation Act, s 21
    http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/ia1987191/s21c.html

    (2) Meaning of “de facto relationship” For the purposes of any Act or instrument, a person is in a "de facto relationship" with another person if:

    (a) they have a relationship as a couple living together, and

    (b) they are not married to one another or related by family.

    (3) Determination of “relationship as a couple” In determining whether 2 persons have a relationship as a couple for the purposes of subsection (2), all the circumstances of the relationship are to be taken into account, including any of the following matters that are relevant in a particular case:

    (a) the duration of the relationship,

    (b) the nature and extent of their common residence,

    (c) whether a sexual relationship exists,

    (d) the degree of financial dependence or interdependence, and any arrangements for financial support, between them,

    (e) the ownership, use and acquisition of property,

    (f) the degree of mutual commitment to a shared life,

    (g) the care and support of children,

    (h) the performance of household duties,

    (i) the reputation and public aspects of the relationship.

    No particular finding in relation to any of those matters is necessary in determining whether 2 persons have a relationship as a couple.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You should look at the legislation. FHOG act in your state.

    I would have thought it would be classed as living in a domestic relationship – which is different to spouse. I haven't looked at it however.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    jkl999 wrote:

    Hi Terry
    my head is easily spinning at the permutations..I did not get your figures..my lack of understanding Im sure

    Im also thinking out aloud to spousal regear for 550K and then rent the current owned PPOR…but this triggers CGT event I guess..and stampduty ..Im assuming the ACT is not into free spousal transfer ?

    I think I need some good accountants advice..anyone recommend in the ACT
    cheers

    Possibly not cgt on transfer if main residence dont think any stamp duty concessions in act unless the transfer occurs because of breakdown in relationship

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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