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If you use cash then you cannot take out a loan to refinance this – and claim it. ie the interest on the extra money borrowed wouldn't be deductible as it wouldn't relate to the property.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
hi Richard,
Good question. I am working with structuring and setting up estate plans for people and loans are a big part. There are so many silly brokers out there and so many people are simply throwing their money away by paying too much tax because they haven't got a simple part of it correct. Now I can give tax advice and legal advice and credit advice and SMSF advice, but will leave out the financial advice for now.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Whats going on Jamie? Why is everyone leaving?
I am just about to become a broker again.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Carl, you are throwing money away!
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Or
Set up a LOC on the PPOR and use the LOC to pay for the initial deposit/costs so that you only need to borrow 80% under the main loan. This will avoid cross collateralising the loans and also avoid LMI. Why didn't he suggest this? he could have cost you $7k.!
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
heaps of issues with smsf. You would be unable to stay in it if you purchase in the SMSF. You would also likely to have problems building.
Since you will be owner building and have a bit of equity you might consider buying the land with an 80% LVR loan and then setting up a LOC on the PPOR and using this to complete the build. Once the project is finished yo may be able to increase the loan on it for further investing.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
There is a tax ruling which you could rely on to fix things now. If you can demonstrate how much of the loan is related to investment v non investment you can split the loan.
So what you hsould do is to split the loan into 2, one being the investment portion and one being the personal portion. You can then add on a LOC separate to these for the next purchase. This should only be used to pay the deposit and costs and then the main loan for the next portion be set up as a separate loan at 80% LVR interest only.
If you are in Sydney I may be able to help – soon – I am a solciitor and soon to be mortgage broker.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Yes, def don't use a LOC for a standard loan because of the tax issues. If you do you will be left wtih a large loan with none of the interest deductible. Only use a LOC for deposits and other IP costs.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
kong71286 wrote:Interest earned from your savings is taxed, whereas interest saved from your loan is notFor instance if you have $100,000 savings@6% interest p.a., and are at the marginal tax rate of 30%, then you would earn $6,000 per year, but then be taxed on $1,800 and be left with $4,200
On the other hand, if you were to place that money in the offset account @ 6.7%, you would save +$6,700 p.a. and this would not be taxed, so you would be better off by $2,500 per year (minus the costs associated with an offset account)
Kong, this is an offset linked to an IP. So any reduction in the interest payable on the IP loan would lead to more income. This means the negative gearing effect will be less, or the positive income more. This in turn equals more tax.
However, it still may work out better to put into the offset account.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
If you have non deductible debt then you should have the offset account on this loan. If you set up a second one on an investment loan you will end up paying more tax.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
The title is unlikely to pass to you until you pay the final payment.
They could be just after the initial $1k, but probably would like to make more by getting you into the house. They will likely charge you a premium on the rent and a premium on the price you pay for it. if prices are rising then this can work in your favour, but when prices are flat then you will be paying more than if you were renting a similar property elsewhere.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Hi Ossi
Firstly, you have little equity and virtually none that is usable. But this will come hopefully.
The trouble with 2 on title is 2 on loans. So you and the friend would need to apply for an increase. Both of you incomes etc would need to be proven again. You would both be jointly and severally liable. It could be possible to get the LOC in one name with the other person guaranteeing it. Its a bit messy, but not much can be done about it. Also, if you friend suddenly had bad credit – you could be denied the loan.
So assuming you set a LOC up in both names, you should also do a loan agreement with him lending you half of the money you have taken out. This may not be necessary, but you never know and it could come in handy if audited down the track.
You can also get a new loan and have it stand alone with the existing propert playing no part. ie not used for security in anyway. Even the LOC won't be secured on this property. You could pay the LOC back although for tax reasons it may be better not to.
If you do pay the LOC becareful because he could withdraw or start using it. This could happen at any stage. so maybe request 2 to sign.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
oscar1 wrote:Terryw wrote:Few comments:If you borrow extra and leave it in redraw it will be treated as a new loan once money is withdrawn from the redraw. Deductibility will depend on how the funds are used. If you take money for rates etc then it would generally be deductible. But if you transfer the money from redraw to an offset account to write a cheque, then the interest would not generally be deductible as the funds would no longer be borrowings.
It won't be a good idea to take money from the same loan as your PPOR debt unless it is a different split. This would be mxing loans and you could still claim some of hte interest but it will be messy to work out and other problems if you are paying PI.
From what I've read, it should be ok to empty a transactional account, place funds equal to the outgoing amount in there, then pay the outgoings on the IP. This way I'm not 'mixing urine with water' so to speak.
I will certainly not be redrawing from the PPOR loan whilst the property is still my PPOR. But once it converts to an IP in the next 12 months this will be a different story.
I would even be wary of using an account with no funds. Once the borrowed funds hit it they are no longer borrowed.
Be careful with withdrawing from the PPOR loan.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I odn't think part IVA could apply unless you were paying interest with further borrowings in a scheme like fashion to enable you to pay down your PPOR loan faster – and even then only maybe.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Few comments:
If you borrow extra and leave it in redraw it will be treated as a new loan once money is withdrawn from the redraw. Deductibility will depend on how the funds are used. If you take money for rates etc then it would generally be deductible. But if you transfer the money from redraw to an offset account to write a cheque, then the interest would not generally be deductible as the funds would no longer be borrowings.
It won't be a good idea to take money from the same loan as your PPOR debt unless it is a different split. This would be mxing loans and you could still claim some of hte interest but it will be messy to work out and other problems if you are paying PI.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I am a solicitor with knowledge of trusts and I would like to offer that I have a look at the trust set up for you to see if I can help or make some suggestions.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I think LOCs would be great if it wasn't for the tax issues. I would recomend people NOT use them for the main loan because of this. Only for accessing equity.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
surfsup008 wrote:Hi Paul,Thanks for your info. I understand how that structure would work. The other important point to raise which I forgot to make clear in initial post is that the investor would be looking to pay for the entire process… ie 100% cash for property and 100% cash for renos (it should be noted investor is not in the mafia.. these are lower priced houses). I understand this is not the best investing strategy, but he wants to avoid financing.
So I guess in this situation we're trying to work out what percentage share our services are worth in the deal. Ie if we source the property, facilitate the reno and ideally increase the equity then what is this worth in terms of % share in the home? Do we charge a management fee for the process and take a 20 or 30% share? or less? And cashflow (rent) is returned to the investor as theirs no mortgage to be paid?
Of course a property specialist solictor would need to put together an agreement covering us all.
cheers,
Harry
I would have suggested what Paul suggested, but with him putting up cash that will change things. Maybe just give him a larger percentage by giving more % of units in the unit trust.
Are you going to mortgage these properties to get loans later?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
waydo77 wrote:so would the best way going forward be to put the next ip in my name or joint with my partner or even in a trust structure/business entity is what i am asking? i just hear all the time that it is bad to buy property in your own name and better to buy through a trust structure or business entity? do you have offices in adelaide richard? cheersDefine 'best'!?
I personally would never buy anything in my own name, but each one's personal circumstances and situation are different.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Redrawing funds to reno or use on that property would make the loan deductible when the property is rented out – but you would have expended the funds anyway.
Sharve's post has merit. Especially in VIC where there may be no stamp duty payable.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au



