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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
    Join Date: 2001
    Post Count: 16,213

    There are several reasons to buy in a personal name:
    1. Access to the CGT exemption for main residences
    2. Access to CGT exemption for an absence from your main residence
    3. Land tax threshold
    4. legal simplicity
    5. tax simplicity
    6. Your houses will form part of your will.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Several reasons not to buy in an individuals name:
    1. No asset protection
    2. No tax streaming benefits
    3. Difficult to bring in additional partners
    4. little flexibility in transferring to a related entity such as a SMSF
    5. Forms part of your will on death and wills can be challenged.
    6. overall little flexibility.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It may not be as bad as I first thought if you are never taking any money out for private use. But it can still disadvantage you. I can think of 2 ways:

    1. eg.

    Your LOC loan is $300,000 and you are putting in excess cash each week from rents, say $5,000 and your interest is $4,000.

    Each week your balance is dropping by $1,000.
    After 1 year your LOC balance would be down to $248,000. This is good because you are paying off debt.

    But if you had used a offset account you could be better off. First, you may receive a 0.1% cheaper rate than a LOC. And secondly your loan balance would still be $300,000 and the offset $52,000. This would result in the same interest (or less considering the cheaper rate), but you would have $50,000 cash available.

    If you wanted to buy that ivory back scratcher you always wanted you could take the $50,000 from the offset and in effect claim the interest on it, even though it is a private expense. With a LOC you couldn't.

    2. Imagine you have 5 IPs and a mixed LOC – mixed because you used to put rents in and expenses out etc. very hard to track.
    You then sell one IP – how much of the surplus money do you need to pay the LOC down by? You cannot continue to keep claiming interest associated with loan to purchase a IP after that IP is sold (usually).

    If you are using a LOC just for deposits then it should be easy to work out the interest for each property – you would need to attribute interest for each property in proportion to the borrowings. Overall it won't make any difference to your overall tax if you get it wrong – but it will when you sell.

    But if you are just boworring $39,000 in Jan, and then $61,000 in Feb etc, then in Jan 100% of the interest will be for property A and in Feb 39% for property A and 61% for property B. (roughly – will be different because you need to calculate number of days in month etc).

    That is why I think it best to unravel now before it gets messier.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213

    It is messy because how do you distinguish between properties. It could disadvantage you later.

    A LOC should only ever be used for investment expenses. ie You can borrow to pay deposits, pay rates, insurances etc.

    using an IO loan with offset is much better for getting incomes deposited, including wages and there would be no tax issues when you withdraw funds.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I agree with Richard.

    Don't use your offset account money as this is personal funds and will be needed for your future PPOR. You have plenty of equity so use this to borrow 105% of the new property (without crossing loans).

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213

    I don't like your LOC method because you are paying into an investment loan and it will be messy later – like your accountant says. What if you sold one property, how much of the LOC is associated with each property?

    I would keep the LOC, but set up an offset account against one of the IP loans. If all IPs are owned by the same entity then it doesn't matter which. Have this as the main transaction account with all rents going in, wages going in, and then all expenses going out.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Most of the brokers here understand loans for trusts.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It might work if you were employed by some other third party

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    hi Ptn

    Sounds like you don't understand trusts – no offence meant, but keep on learning.

    The $50k cash equity, is this cash or equity? If it is cash can't you just borrow it off the trustee?

    Who is the trustee now?

    The company can pay you a fee – but why would you want to do that?

    The trustee is the legal owner of the assets of the 'trust' so all assets should be in the name of the trustee.

    Maybe you are trying to increase your borrowing capacity by having the trust pay you a fee? This won't really work as the banks will want to see the tax returns of hte companies and trusts which you are associated with. The fee will also be taxable income to you.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Does the trust have $50,000? If so it can lend you.

    If not, then how could it pay you? It could borrow but if you are the person behind the trust and cannot borrow then your trust probably cannot either.

    Opening a company on top won't formalise things! I thnk you are mixed up a bit here. You might be talking about establishing a company to act as trustee – but if your trust has already been set up and it already owns land then this is no simple matter. First, you will have to establish if stamp duty will be payable on the transfer of title and then you will have to actually transfer title to the land. This will also entail getting new loans if the land is used as security.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Now work out on a yield of X% what level of property you need to hold.

    eg. at 10%  pa yield  you would need $200,000/0.1 = $2,000,000 in unencumbered property.

    At $500,000 per property you would need 4 properties.

    Thats the easy bit, now you have to work out how to acheive it. It might mean buying 8 properties now and then selling 4 in 10 years when the have doubled and using the proceeds to pay off the loans.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    This is a complex Q. It may be possible to convert future profits into income at present – but since trusts cannot retail income it would be to be distributed – but I guess it could be done as  loan account.

    You need a good tax advisor for this.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213

    You will need to read your contract to see what you agreed to do. Its generally too late to change things now, but you could have negotiated around this by requesting a longer settlement period once the plan was registered. Wet carpets is likely to be a minor defect and probably wouldn't delay settlement.

     What does your lawyer say?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Post Count: 16,213
    BrianN wrote:

     

    To Terryw: given that we have 120K to redraw from current loan, can it add up with 175K deductible loan? Is there any way at all to fully claim interest on 440K?

    To Richard: is there any stamp duty in NSW if I buy the other half from my wife? In term of asset protection, I would say I need only a valid Will or do I have to set up the trust?

    Cheers

    If you borrow the $120,000 from redraw the interest will only be deductible if this is used for investment/business.

    In NSW there would be stamp duty payable if you bought your wife's interest in the property. What do you mean about asset protection?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    http://www.lawyersrealestate.com.au/

    Not sure if they do other than conveyancing though.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    surfsup008 wrote:
    Hi Terry,

    Thanks for your info.

    The way I see it is the partner has money but no experience and wants to get into the market and I have experience (albeit not a huge amount), so I see it that we can help each other out. Again I guess the issue which I raised earlier is what price does ones experience equate to?

    You mention a unit trust. Is this because it would protect both of our assets should things go wrong?

    Surely there must be a way for this to work for both parties? It does seem like it would be hard to implement but surely its possible?

    With a unit trust this clearly separates percentage ownership. So you could have 60 units and him 40 etc. You can also do with your units as you please – such as have them held by your discretionary trust. You could transfer some later to other people without having to change the title deeds on the property etc.

    One advantage in addition is that often one partner will want to get out of the deal after a whle for various reasons. This is much easier to do with a company owning the property as trustee for the unit trust. The one getting out just sells their units to the remaining person or to another person.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Thanks. Sounds very promising then. I have a good friend in Regensberg.

    What is the capital gains over there like in general?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It could be possible.

    But not without LMI or a similar risk fee like on the ING products.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    WOuld it be possible for the non German background foreigner to own land in their own name and to get finance there?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    They wouldn't lend on end value. Generally it would be based on the fixed price building contract.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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