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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You would want to keep your cash for your non-deduction debt usually. Probably a good way to proceed would be to lend money to your trust by borrowing it from a LOC secured on your main residence at the same rate you are being charged. Any less would cause tax issues.

    If the trust does go down then you as the lender will probably only lose the money lent and not your house. if you let the trust use the house as security then it would be more risky.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Yes

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You can tell the lender to do anytihng, but they won't be contractually bound so they can sell to another even if they take it off the market. They may keep it for you or may not.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    That is what I would suggest, but it won't prevent gazumping.

    Start negotiation, set up a trust, and then enter the contract – if the property is still available.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You cannot claim anything as you wonn't own the property. The trust can claim all the usual expenses though.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    DHCP wrote:
    Before anyone gazump you, put an offer on the property preferrably put a small deposit and if accepted, get them to take the property out of the market before it disappears out of your sight.

    Then, do your due dilligence (e.g. building inspection, pest control etc). Also, talk to your silicitor to put the property under a trust name for asset protection…. structure it well. Then, speak to your mortgage broker if you have already pre approved mortgage by a bank….and see what's your LVR from your lender. Some Lenders can loan you up to 90% of the value of the property.

    To prevent gazumping you would need to enter into a contract. And to avoid paying stamp duty twice you would also need to have the entity established before entering  contract in most states, inclduing, I think WA.

    So becareful in following this advice.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Slow down.

    Just because you have found a cashflow positive property doesn't mean it is a good deal.

    What do you need to know? You shouldn't be signing any contracts before talking to a solicitor (and not an annonymous caller). If you don't have a trust set up before you sign then you will be charged double stamp duty in WA if you sign and later put it in the name of a trustee.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I personally would use a LOC for the deposits, and then only pay the interest on this each month.

    And then an IO loan for the remainder, secured only on hte investment property. Use a 100% offset account on this for all wages and rents.

    PI is ok if you have no nondeductible debt. But, you will be paying down the loans. This shoudn't save you any more interest because you would be otherwise putting the cash in the offset.

    But, I would also never purchase an investment in my own name. I would suggest you seriously look at using a discretionary trust.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Sounds like he may have suggested a LOC for the deposit and and another main loan with the offset?

    But, if he suggested you borrow and place money into an offset then this is dangerous. You would likely lose deductibility of the interest.

    If you do use a LOC for the deposit you should never deposit wages etc into this account or you would end up with a loan where none of the interest is deductible.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    If something happens the bank will come after the security property first. The mortgage allows them to do this.
    If that is not enough to satisfy the debt then they would come after other property, but much later.

    Was the broker also suggesting you place your wage into the LOC each week to reduce the interest?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    If you have no personal debt, a discretionary trust may work well. Expecially if you intend to pay the loan down. You need to consider this carefully.

    2 Commnets on using the LOC to purchase outright.
    1. If in the unlikely event that you default on the loan, would you prefer the bank take the investment property or your house?
    2. Using a LOC like this would be dangerous and result in you paying more tax.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Shape wrote:
    Also side note- Most of Nathan's purchases are under his personal name. Personal choice. Terry has already listed the benefits of a trust…and no it does not mean you can borrow more… Regards Michael

    Hi Michael,

    If you are talking about Nathan Birch, then I asked him the question on somersolf forum, and think he replied that the early purchases were in his own name but more recent ones are going into trusts.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Bob,

    If you have no non deductible debt then it would be ok to use PI loans for property – especially if this is what you feel comfortable with.

    But, by using IO loans you will be paying less per month in repayments which may mean that you could afford more properties.

    Also by paying down a loan you are tying up your cash. This would be available by redraw or reborrowing, but you would have tax issues if you wanted to use the money for personal reasons – such as a new car or an upgrade of the main residence.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Many reasons to use multiple trusts: – off the top of my head

    1. Asset protection – not keeping all your eggs in the one basket.

    2. Succession – easier to split up assets between family members when you want to. Imagine if you had 2 kids and one big trust.

    3. Life – a trust has a life of 80 years, so if 5 years has passed, then you can form a new trust and extend the life of hte asset being held by another 5 years.

    4. Improvements to deeds – trust deeds need constant updating, so having a new deed would mean it would be update

    5. changes – you may want to include a friend in a project who would otherwise not be a beneficiary

    6. segregation – you may want to segregate premarital trust assets from post

    7. tax flexibility – you would have greater tax flexibility if separate trusts. If one trust then capital losses may be automatically offset by capital gains within the trust while a beneficiariy has an offset which could be utilised. If separate trusts then you may have the choice of which way to go. If one trust then no choice.

    etc

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    scha9799 wrote:
    I heard people using multiple trust to purchase the properties, and banks doesn't required you to show if you are the guarantor for other trust. hence you can get the loan easier if somone run mulitple trust.  ie. If you are the guarantor for Trust A, and you also are the guarantor for Trust B. You are buying the property in Trust A and go to the bank showing them you are the guarantor for Trust A. do you also have to tell the lender/bank you are the guarantor for Trust B  ?

    This doesn't work.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You may have heard something about changes to taxation of trusts, but this is just to clarrify a  few aspects with nothing in the pipeline that is adverse – that I know of.

    Another reason is the flexibility in passing on control in your life time and after you are dead. If you did have a child and wanted them to take over, you would just hand control of the appointor role and make them director of the trustee. No stamp duty.

    On death trust assets dont form part of your estate (except some limited exceptions in NSW) and so are safe if your will is challenged.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Using trusts won't help you own any more properties and it could all be done in your personal name – but I think that would not be a good idea for a number of reasons.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Ian,

    This may not be prudent. All the trust's assets would be tied up in the one property and there would be no diversification so it could be argued the trustee is not investing responsibilily. So, make sure you get some advice regarding this – it may be possible considering the future contributions expected from members.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    The law says that interest in deductible if the funds borrowed are used for investment purposes. The ATO has also confirmed that interest on interest would be deductible where the original borrowings is for investment purposes. But they have said in TD 2011/D8 that they will disallow the deduction on the capitalised interest if the dominant purpose if to pay off your own home loan sooner. They do this under Part IVA of the ITAA 1936 if you are doing something with the dominant purpose of obtaining a deduction.

    Therefore, you could be able to claim a deduction if the reason if the dominant purpose was not to claim an extra tax deduction but for other reasons. One reason that may be applicable could be for cashflow.

    So in order to be safe if could be a good idea to apply to the ATO for a private ruling, outlining your situation and the reasons for doing this and then asking would the interest on the LOC be deductible?

    You can apply for a private ruling by doing it yourself, search the ATO website, or using a tax advisor.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    But, there may still be ways to do what you want to do, so don't give up.

    It may also be wise to apply for a private ruling..

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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