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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Certainly not!

    Completelyy different products and you can get into a lot of troube by using a LOC.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    booge wrote:
    As far as IO goes, at what stage do you pay down the principle? Or is it just left IO until you sell it? Always wondered what people did and why in this situation.

    Its up to the individual. Some keeping rolling over indefinitely. Others like to pay off a main residence first and then start paying off the investments. Others just have PI on all loans (and lose a bit of tax).

    But having IO for ever may sound crazy initially – but think back to your grandparents/parents property which they bought in Sydney in 1960 for $16,000. Now worth $1mil. Imagine if they borrowed 100% IO and kept it IO for 42 years. Today the loan would still be $16,000 with interest of about $1000 per year.

    If they rented it out they may get $40,000 per year in rent!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Sorry, and the answer to that question:

    1. No. A taxpayer's purpose of 'paying their home loan off sooner' does not mean that Part IVA of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 (ITAA 1936)1 cannot apply to an 'investment loan interest payment arrangement' of the type described in paragraph 3 of this draft Determination.

    see http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=%22DXT%2FTD2011D8%2FNAT%2FATO%2F00001%22

    I should point out that I don't support living off equity in most circumstances, especially in these days of low growth. But doing it properly it can work – for a while at least. And rather than living off equity living off rents or dividends and letting loans capitalise may be a better way to proceed, especially if you have no other income and no outstanding private debt.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    EPI_Den wrote:
    My experience is that you need to get a tax ruling to capitalise interest, and your primary reason given needs to be that you're paying off your home loan faster. If you say you want to capitalise interest so that you can reduce your tax debt, it'll be a miracle for the ATO to rule in your favour! I hope this helps. And good luck with your investing!

    If you said the primary reason to capitalise interest was to pay off the home loan sooner then the ATO will likely deny the interest claimed. See the recent draft
    TD 2011/D8
    Income tax: does a taxpayer's purpose of 'paying their home loan off sooner' mean that Part IVA of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 cannot apply to an 'investment loan interest payment arrangement' of the type described in this Taxation Determination?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I mean, set up  the appropriate loans, and not make any payments.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Living on equity means borrowing or living on borrowings. Borrowings will obviously increase. Any increased interest won't be deductible either.

    What if you lived on rents instead and capitalised loans? interest would probably be deductible if set up correctly

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    There is a huge difference!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Thats the way. Make sure it is interest only too.. If you have an offset on the PPOR even better as your rents and wages can sit in this and help save you even more.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I imagine any selling costs (and other capital costs) would have to be apportioned between time lived in v time rented. Don't know for sure though?

    Rob?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Best to pay off non deductible debt first as this will save you tax.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    booge wrote:
    The IP is purely in my name from before i met my wife. Haven't refinanced yet, meeting with Mortgage broker next

    I am concerned by this comment. What do you mean – are you talking about adding the wife to title? Mortgage brokers cannot give tax or legal advice and I would be concerned about deductibility of loans if you do transfer and get this wrong. eg If you transfer for no consideration will her half of the loan be deductible?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Banks are in the business of lending. As long as you qualify why wouldn't they lend?

    You will be using equity, but it won't be used as security for the new property. The PPOR will be used as security.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    You would be liable for all expenses up to the end of your lease or until they find a new person to replace you.

    But, the agent also has a duty to minimise costs – they shouldn't leave the property empty just to extract money out of you.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Don't use the offset straight off for the deposit as the interest on your PPOR will increase and this won't be claimable.

    Setting it up like your broker suggests will save you tax and keep the properties from being cross collateralised.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Morts, not sure where the fraud and negligence came into it.

    With a negligence case you would, if lost, have a judgment awarded against you. This is what we are protecting against – bankruptcy. If you don't pay a judgment debt there are a few things that can happen and all of them involve the seizure of your property. If you don't have enough propety then you would generally be bankrupted. This is where the trustee in bankruptcy can look at past transactions and commence legal action against wife etc who owe you money or hold assets on trust for you.

    Fraud is a criminal act so you could face gaol as well as civil actions to return the money etc. There is also the proceeds of crime legislation which enables police to seize property which was purchased with money made from crimes. So same as above but worse.

    I think it would not be possible to will an asset to a SMSF for a few reasons. SMSFs are there to provide for the retirement of the members – this is the sole reason. So if the member dies who are you providing retirement benefits for – death is teh ultimate retirement. You would be crediting the account of a surviving member – and this would be a contribution. So you would have to meet all the contribution cap rules etc. A residential house would also be against the rules too, but you would be a related party.

    The testamentary trust would work well and may even assist if you were to later remarry and then divorice. But only slightly. If would assist your children more if they were to later marry and divorce (because the assets of the trust would not have been built up by their efforts).

    There is also extra ta benefits- children can receive income from a TT at dult rates meaning approx $16,000 per year each. This becomes $20,542 from next year. That is huge. Imagine if you rented the house out in the future and had 2 kids – your family could receive $40,000 pa in rental income tax free.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It could be claimed that your wife owns your share of the house, ie 50%, as trustee for you. A court could deem, or construe, that a trust is in place even though you may not have a formal arrangement or agreement in place. This would be a constructive trust. Probably won't happen unless you are looking at big claims and there is big equity. There is a case in which a barrister went bankrupt and the ATO got half his house – FCT v Cummins.

    People generally don't lke to consider death, but all you asset protection methods could be thrown out the window if your wife would leave you the property in her will. Imagine your business fails because the wife has an illness and you are looking after her. You are sued and a judgment is entered against you, You are then bankrupted, but soon inherit the house.

    Testamentary trusts also has some amazing tax benefits for kids under 18.

    You could leave an asset to a SMSF as it is just a trust – but there would probably be some adverse taxation consequences. I hadnt considered this before.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    It would also show up of the credit report of the individual who is guaranteeing the loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    morts wrote:
    Our PPoR is in my wife's name (beacuse I run a buisness)

    This is a good idea, but it doesn't necessarily mean your property is safe if you are sued. Have you contributed to the repayment of the loan on this property or made other non financial contributions?

    Does you wife have a valid will set up with a testamentary discretionary trust in place?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Your broker is right.

    You accountant is wrong. Or, I should say you cannot redraw the money and use it for the new property because the new property will be a personal expense.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    There is a difference between boarders and renters – boarders just pay their share of costs, not for the room. Renters pay for the room.

    In this I think the intent is to claim expenses so they would need to be renters.

    I think you should seriously consider not doing this, ie claiming it, as the small tax savings now could be large tax losses later when you sell.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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