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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You should go and see a tax advisor as you would be required to declare the income from the properties and the CG too.

    Transferring them to your wife now would be a CGT event so wouldn't save anything on the tax.

    Before bringing the money in you should consider some asset protection strategies and there may be some tax strategies too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Not so straight forward – who will own the property for example?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Hi Ziv,

    I will be in Osaka around Nov/Dec before it gets too cold I hope. Do you deal in any properties around that area?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    I think Richard was referring to serviceability calculations by lenders.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    If you will be using a company as trustee then the company is merely a legal owner with no tax consequences. Income flows through the trust and is not normally taxed in the hands of the trustee. The income is distributed to the beneficiaries who pay tax at their own marginal rates. If the trustee doesn't make a declaration to distribute income before 40 June (and there are no takers in default) then the 'trust' is taxed at 46%. ie not the company but the trust with its own tax return.

    The trust can pay private expenses (subject to the terms in the deed) but these won't be deductible unless they relate to the production of income.

    Trusts don't increase borrowing capacity as stated in that book, but they do help by making things flexible. So your trust owned property and had equity but after a few years you had a default on your credit file and could no longer get finance. All that equity sitting there not being able to be used. What you could do is to replace the director of the trustee company and/or units in the unit trust with another willing person who would then use their borrowing power to apply for a loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    cmartyn23 wrote:
    yea those are all good points you guys are making… do you have any recommendation for me in terms of mortgage broker, accountant or legal??? 

    Nah, wouldn't know where to find a broker!? Don't think Richard or Jamie would know either.

    Where are you located?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    paradigmv wrote:
    Found this advice from BANTACS that I believe should answer my question above:

    "The basic rule is that the interest on a loan is only tax deductible when the money was used to buy an income producing asset or to refinance a loan that was used to buy an income producing asset."

    Looks like the answer is YES – I can sell my PPOR to my wife for zero consideration, pay no CGT or stamp duty for the transfer, 'refinance' the investment loan secured against PPOR to include both our names, yet still claim as deductible 100% of the interest incurred by this loan as the original purpose (to purchase IP1 in my name only) remains unchanged.

    Will run this by a tax accountant, mortgage broker and conveyancer shortly.

    Yes, it can be done. Adding your wife to the loan will complicate things though. There is no need to add her, she can be guarantor. If you add her you will essentially be paying back one loan and taking another with her onlending the money to you – still can maintain deductibility though. You should have a loan agreement with her in place.

    But don't use a conveyancer, you need legal advice!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    There is a thread about them on the invested forum.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Watch out for the aggregation of stamp duty provisions too.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    pliddi wrote:
    Hi Terry – in your latter scenario, getting new directors for each company trustee would basically have the same advantages (and disadvantages) of getting someone to go guarantor for you on a loan, correct?

    Just wanted to clarify if the option you outlined was simply for the theory of it, as opposed to presenting an option with advantages.

    Cheers,

    Peter

    Not sure what you mean. Every director of a company taking a loan would need to give a personal guarantee. You could be director of one and then your spouse director of the next one. You may have a friend who is willing and able to take the reigns – but this would be a huge burden to them and a risk for yourself too as the director of the trustee controls the trust. (but the appointor could remove the trustee giving you some control).

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    yes, section 118-145 ITAA 1997

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    PLC wrote:
    Terry, as a hypothetical what if the money was paid back into the PPOR loan (which is 100% investment from what has been advised), and withdrawn at a later date. No mixed loan from what I can see, so should be fully deductible?

    Cheers

    Tom

    My argument would be that the money borrowed and placed into an offset account is no longer borrowings. The interest on this is therefore no deducitble and that portion of the loan would be private in nature. I am being very strict here and the ATO may be more lenient but it is best to be very careful in this area.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    PLC wrote:
    From what I recall, it's the person whose name is on the title who gets all the benefits. So if the wifes name is the only one on title, but the loan is in two names, it won't matter as all income and expenses would be attributed to the wife.

    Cheers

    Tom

    This is generally true, but not always.

    for example A and B own a property.

    B uses money from a LOC which is taken out in the names of A and B.

    B buys a new property in B's name only.

    B can claim 100% of the interest on the money used from the LOC to fund this property (if investment).

    or

    A owns a property and takes a LOC out on this property.

    A's husband B buys a new property and uses this LOC to fund it.

    B can claim 100% of the interest on this borrowed money assuming new property is an investment.

    Here A is essentially onlending the money to B who is using it to invest.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Qlds007 wrote:
    As i say to most new investor clients when choosing a mortgage broker it is matter of looking at someone who walks the walk and talks the same talk as you do.

    No point in going to a local broker telling him you have $300K equity want to build a portfolio and ask him to structure a loan set up for you when he tells you he has 5% equity in his PPOR and has never purchased an IP.

    I mean would you go to a Dentist telling him you had toothache when he tells you that he has never done an extraction but very keep and read all of the books.

    Cheers

    Yours in Finance

    Or a mid-wife who has never given birth!

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    paradigmv wrote:
    Ok we definitely dont want to go down the mixed loan path… I take it what I need to do then is clearly split that IP loan into one 170k investment portion, and another 100k private portion… then fully pay back the 100k private portion.  When I'm ready I can then take out that 100k as a new investment loan towards the deposit for another IP.

    I just got off the phone to the ATO. I explained my question and was directed to a lady who answered that as long as the funds in the IP loan's offset account is used exclusively for investment purposes such as shares or deposit towards another IP, interest paid on the loan is fully tax deductible… Terry is this perhaps what you meant by the ATO not "strictly" enforcing tax law for these sorts of cases?

    Yes, Strictly speaking I would say it isn't deductible. But as long as you can trace the funds and there is no mixing of borrowed funds with other funds then the ATO may allow it.

    You really need to see a tax advisor and to go through it all as if you get this wrong it will cost you tens of thousands over the next 30 years.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    paradigmv wrote:
    Happily (in a sea of despair), OSR does allow this.  It is not allowed for the FHOG, but is for the first home owner zero stamp duty concession.

    Top call centre question #1 listed on OSR website:

    Q: "A husband and wife purchase a home to live in as their principal place of residence. The property is valued at $490,000. The husband has not owned residential land previously; however, his wife has owned numerous properties. Can the husband claim the first home concession?"

    A: "Yes. The husband can claim the first home concession, and will need to complete a Form D2.1."

    That sounds promising. Just verify with your solicitor.

    So what you need now is a good tax advisor, a lawyer and a mortgage broker to work out how this can be done. If one says it cannot be done then they are no good and move on to the next one.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Depending on your circumstances the property could be totally CGT free if sold within 6 years of it being rented.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    paradigmv wrote:
    I know of the existing exemption when adding a spouse to title of main residence as you rightly point out, but this is a separate concession that applies here.

    The QLD govt brought in a zero stamp duty concession for first home owners' purchase of a main residence effective from 21 Sept 2012.

    http://www.osr.qld.gov.au/duties/transfer-duty/exemptions-and-concessions/concessions-for-homes.shtml

    I dont' know QLD laws, but would be surprised if this allows one spouse to buy and get the grant when the other spouse has previously or currently owned property. Why not give the OSR a call.

    If it does then it will be a significant opportunity.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    paradigmv wrote:
    This is the equity loan I've taken out over the PPOR currently in my name. The loan was at 80% LVR of the PPOR value and was fully directed to purchase the IP (which I'm having the offset dramas with).

    If I transferred the property to my wife's name or go tenants-in-common with her, then that would mean the loan would have to be refinanced. If her name is added to the loan after refinance, doesn't that mean that I can only claim 50% of the loan interest as deductible?

    Since ownership is changing you would have to take out new loans. You could treat the existing loans as a 'refinance' so the amount changes. If there were 2 names on title then you used the money for other investments then nothing changes in terms of deductibility. You can still claim all of the interest.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Def pay down non deductible debt first.

    Consider selling one of the houses, ideally one in your name only, when you are not working and pay down the non deductible debt.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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