Forum Replies Created
- kat13 wrote:Yep Terry it has its own separate account number.
Either way – it all still sounds do-able to this point. I am just unsure about using the 90K as a deposit for a PPOR – that would then mean we are lending 100% to buy doesn't it?
That is good news. It means it is not a mixed loan and can be paid off independently.
If you don’t use this as deposit do you have cash to use?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Paul B. wrote:Terry/Jamie et al.,If I were to turn my PPOR into an IP does the interest on the loan from that point become tax deductible? I recall you saying that it is only tax deductible if the purpose of the loan was for an investment (which it wasn't, it was to buy our home).
What happens in this situations?
generally, but not necessarily.
Imagine you had a loan of $500,000 which was used to purchase the property. The interest on this would generally be deductible if you rented the house. This is because the purpose of the loan was to buy the house and the house would be an income producing asset once rented. So interest be be deductible once it is available for rent.
Now imagine that you had receive an inheritance of $490,000 and paid it into the loan in year 2. In year 4 you pulled out $490,000 and your loan balance is $500,000 again. Assume i is interest only for the next 30 years. In year 35 you rent it out.
Only interest on the $10,000 of the loan would be deductible. The $490,000 you pulled out is new borrowings and the itnerest on this will only be deductible if the purpose of these borrowings are investment related.
It can be very complicated if someone sets up a LOC on their home loan. They would need to treat each withdrawal as new borrowings and work out the balance the loan attributable to the purchase of the house. So NEVER use a LOC for a loan other than as access deposits for further property. Otheriwse you could have a large loan with no or little interest being deductible.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Kat, does the $90k loan have its own loan number separate to the $280K?
You could possibly claim only a max of 75% of the interest on this mixed loan if it became and IP. Other expenses could be claimed in full.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Borrowing to pay out one loan is just refinancing. So if the original interest was deductible the new loan's interest should be deductible. Security doesn't matter for the claiming of tax.
There can be non tax advantages in doing this espeically where the titles are not in the same names etc. Someone may want an unecumbered property for some reason and this may help with that.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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This is more complicated than you think because of that $90k mistake.
The loan is currently $280k (rounding to make it easier). Of this $90k relates to the extra repayment. So your loan must have been around
$280,000 before you withdraw the $90k
$370,000 after you withdraw the $90k
and
$280,00 now that you have redeposited the $90k.
The $90k is considered a separate loan as it was borrowed separately from the original money.
Now once you withdrew the $90k you had a mixed loan:
$280,000 associated with the purchase of the house and
$90,000 associated with a savings offset account.
total loan $370,000 $76% of the interest of this loan is associated with the first loan and 24% the second loan.
Now you have gone and deposited $90k. Since you have a mixed loan – ie two loans within one you cannot say the $90k deposit must come off the $90k loan. Any deposit must come off both loans in proportion to the %. So 76% of the $90k deposit must come off the $280,000 portion. 76% is $68,400. So your new mixed loan balance would be like this:
Total loan $280,000
Loan associated with the purchase of the property = $211,600
Loan associated with the money borrowed to fund an offset account = $90,000 – (24% of $90,000) = $68,400
Therefore only part of the loan is associated with the purchase of the property and this part is $211,600/$280,000 = 75.5%
ie only 75% of the interest on this loan would ever be deductible.
And this assumes you had not paid any principal off the loan since borrowing $90k. If you did you owuld need to do the cumbersome calculations as above for each repayment.
One way you could have fixed things when you became aware of the mistake was to split the loan into 2 portions one being $90k and then immediately pay off the $90k loan.
This is why brokers should not give tax advise
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Mortgage exit fees have been abolished under the NCCP Act or regulations. You just have the discharge of mortgage fee now – and break costs if the loan is fixed
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I don't know if there are any rules regarding there being only 1 lender to a SMSF. The assets of a bare trust can only be mortgaged or charged by one lender – I'm not even sure if this is the case actually. But a member can loan funds to the SMSF without security. This can be over and above the secured loan.
A member has to becareful with the interest rate charged. There are some ATO advices out saying you can charge less, but not more. It may even be possible to charge no interest – but be very careful
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Do a title search and then try google and face book.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
not_so_lucky wrote:Terryw wrote:not_so_lucky wrote:Thank you all!!!I've contacted a few accountants and they all recommend I see a different person … or do they?
These are the people they suggested I see, are they al the same???
property surveyor
independent valuer
quantity surveyer
property valuer
One of them suggested this site: http://www.bmtqs.com.au/ConstructionCostCalculator.aspx
Does it look promising?
Doesn't sound promising to me. Ask these accountants under what authority they are saying this. See s 121-20 ITAA 1997 http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/itaa1997240/s121.20.html
Thank you Terry for that link.
Does the below mean that a valuation could be sufficient?
(5) If the necessary records of an act, transaction, event or circumstance do not already exist, you must reconstruct them or have someone else reconstruct them.
Example: Your capital gain or capital loss from a CGT event may depend on the market value of property at a particular time. To record that market value properly, you may need to get a valuation done.
But, a valuation will only establish the value of the building. This won’t necessarily be what it cost you to construct. You might need to do several things such as valuation, QS report, go back over credit card statements, loan withdrawals etc.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
not_so_lucky wrote:Thank you all!!!I've contacted a few accountants and they all recommend I see a different person … or do they?
These are the people they suggested I see, are they al the same???
property surveyor
independent valuer
quantity surveyer
property valuer
One of them suggested this site: http://www.bmtqs.com.au/ConstructionCostCalculator.aspx
Does it look promising?
Doesn’t sound promising to me. Ask these accountants under what authority they are saying this.
See s 121-20 ITAA 1997
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/itaa1997240/s121.20.htmlTerryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
grimnar wrote:Sounds like a tough one…Maybe talk to a property valuer, and see if you can get them to do a retrospective desktop valuation based on comparable sales, using data from 10 years ago.
It may be a long shot, but If yes then you'll get your valuation. If no, then you've only lost some time and the cost of a phone call.
But a valuation will only help in establishing the value. What is needed is proof of costs to help determine the cost base. These would be totally different.
There are rules for when this happens – ‘dog ate my homework’ type rules where people lose receipts etc. It will be especially difficult for an owner builder.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Jamie M wrote:Terryw wrote:RPI wrote:One old boy I know, who has 10's of millions of commercial property, probably more.His advice was to always pay down one. Your own house first, then your oldest IP and so on. This guy has been buying investment property for over 50 years. The problem is the tight old bugger won't spend any of his money. He'll be dead in 10 years.
I know an old multi millionaire like that. He repairs his own underwear.
lol – well they say frugality is a characterstic of the rich.
Cheers
Jamie
There is frugality and then there is tight assity
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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RPI wrote:One old boy I know, who has 10's of millions of commercial property, probably more.His advice was to always pay down one. Your own house first, then your oldest IP and so on. This guy has been buying investment property for over 50 years. The problem is the tight old bugger won't spend any of his money. He'll be dead in 10 years.
I know an old multi millionaire like that. He repairs his own underwear.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
If you want to find out who owns a particular property go to the land titles website in the state of the property. Cost about $10
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Lawyers can't even estimate their own costs, so they wouldn't be able to help.
With tax you have to substantiate your claims. If you don't have receipts then I don't think there is much scope for estimating the costs. This is why it is important to keep all receipts for all properties for ever – even after you have died as your heirs will have an even harder time.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Possibly, depending on a few things. Speak to your accountant before doing anything.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Nigel, that is exactly what happened with me. I've done one property deal where I lost money and it was because I didn't do any DD. Just let a friend build a project for me which blew out with costs and time.
Good analogy about the holiday brochures/websites too – much different when you actually get there.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Mikko wrote:Just another thing, I salary sacrifice $120 into Super every week. Would you guys recommend continuing to do so? Or would it be more beneficial to me to save and invest the money elsewhere?This is imposisble to answer and would depend on many variables:
1. Your age
2. your income
3. return in your superfund
4. your risk of going bankrupt
5. your spending habits
6. your life expectancy
etc etcTerryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Sounds like you haven't got a lawyer. Saving money on a lawyer will likely cost you a lot more in the long run.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
What does your lawyer say?
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au



