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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Unfortunately you won't be able to deduct any interest on your loan as you will be borrowing to buy a new owern occupied property.

    You should seek some tax advice as there are possibly a few things you could do to enhance your situation.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    keenan031 wrote:

    If you are talking about that company (C….) then I believe they are not tax advisors and don't advise, but their method involves capitalising interest, but not claiming the interest on the capitalised portion.[/quote]

    Terryw….yes that's the one I'm on about. Does this mean that they do it in a legit way? 

    I have substantial savings and this was the reason for my initial enquiry…..I want to be able to over time (hopefully) … use property to create financial freedom and wanted to know the thoughts on this way of doing business. 

    [/quote]

    Hi Keenan

    I imagine they would be doing things properly. but I am not sure of the details . I think they refer people to Bantacs for the tax side and Bantacs are legit.

    If you have substantial savings there are other strategies to consider as well for added tax and asset protection.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    keenan031 wrote:
    Trickeymickey,

    The system that I was enquiring about is NOT out of the book. It is how a particular property services company acquires IPs for your portfolio…..or as far as I am aware at this stage.

    I found the book to be a good read.

    If you are talking about that company (C….) then I believe they are not tax advisors and don’t advise, but their method involves capitalising interest, but not claiming the interest on the capitalised portion.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
    Email Me

    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    You might also want to look at

    TD 2008/27

    http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=TXD/TD200827/NAT/ATO/00001

    The principles governing the deductibility of compound interest are the same as those governing the deductibility of ordinary interest

    PBR 69725

    PBR 78123

    PBR 94265

    PBR 81797

    PBR 93707

    PBR 94313

    PBR 93035

    PBR 1011345133229

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Yes, it is capitalising interest. This involves borrowing to pay investment property interest and diverting the rental income to pay off your non deductible debt.

    ATO will likely disallow this if you are doing it with the dominant purpose of a tax advantage. See the

    TD 2012/1

    Income tax: can Part IVA of the Income Tax Assessment Act 1936 apply to deny a deduction for some, or all, of the interest expense incurred in respect of an 'investment loan interest payment arrangement' of the type described in this Determination?

    http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=%22TXD%2FTD20121%2FNAT%2FATO%2F00001%22 from 20

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    1. Standard government charge – probably on your loan agreement

    2. You can pay the fee into the loan and this owuld be the same as if you paid it in cash

    3. no

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Possible stamp duty issues.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    PaulDobson wrote:
    Sorry about the broken link It's now fixed and here it is again;  CLICK HERE

    Yes, the knock on effect for all seminar presenters may be interesting.

    Cheers,  Paul

    Thanks Paul. Rick doesn’t actually say much does he.

    And interesting what the flow on effect will be.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Ditto. Interesting but the otton link not work.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    My answers are the same as Jamie about.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    wilko1 wrote:
    I mean just if you had the option from the beginning.

    why pay principal and interest and have to worry about your usage/risk of withdrawn money from the loan. 

    Just pay interest only with a offset account and pay principle payments into there. 

    Yep, that wil greatly assist as no extra payments will have been made with the cash available in the offset instead of in the loan as would happen wiht a PI loan

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I refer my clients to http://www.houseofwealth.com.au in Sydney and Melbourne. I also do legal work for a lot of their clients.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    wilko1 wrote:
    thats why you set up a offset account isnt it ? so you dont effect the loan balance

    Different situation really.

    Offset is for storing spare cash from savings an income.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Bergerson33 wrote:
    Thanks for the reply.

    Would lawyer costs go close to the money I'm going to lose anyway or would it be relativly cheap?

    Probably $300 to review the contract and write a letter for you (not my area, best to find someone local)

    After posting I read the rest of the thread and see RIchard had already said similar to me.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Bergerson33 wrote:
    Hi,

    My partner and myself had a property investment company come to our home and took us through the general basics of property investment, they then organised to have us go to their office in the city for an obligation free meeting to see if we would be financially able to invest in property

    I attended a meeting with the company in Melbourne last week, I believe I may have made a terrible mistake.

    My partner and myself attended a 4 hour meeting where 2 guys went over our financial situation. They then proceeded to tell us about their company, what they do and show us things we can claim on tax etc.

    Then they took us through what they could do for us by sourcing out a few properties (only new properties and only within 15km's of the CBD) and will get back to us in a few weeks once they have sourced out properties. They said the properties would be in low vacancy rate areas, then go to town planning to see if any major developments are happening in the area.

    Once they have done that they take us out to the properties and we select one, they then handle the conveyancing (not the mortgage brokeing, or at least that hasn't been mentioned yet). They then cover landlord insurance for the first year. They also gave advise on our other finances like consolidating credit cards, car loans etc.

    Now here's where it gets embarrassing for me.

    At the end of this meeting, they asked us if we wanted to join and they would get straight to work. My partner and myself were quite excited by the whole thing so we agreed to sign up. The cost to sign up was $1000 up front and then another payment of $4000 in 45 days which they said we could claim on tax and could also have that amount put in to the loan when we purchase the home.

    After reading the contract we both signed up.

    Initially on reading the contract I took the understanding that the $1000 was just a deposit and if we walked out on the deal that we would lose that. But after reading over it again it looks as though we have to pay the remaining sum regardless of whether we go through with anything.

    After reading the contract over a few times I started to get a little nervous, so I Googled 'property investment companies' and 'property investment scams'.

    For 3 days straight I have been reading over scams, what to look out for, property companies selling houses for well over their value to increase commisions etc.

    Fair to say I haven't slept properly for 3 days, please understand I know I may have made a terrible mistake which will cost me a fair sum of money and I have learnt a massive lesson.

    What I want to ask is,

    What do I do from here?

    Are any of these companies not dodgy?

    Should I go and look at the homes they selected, choose one, then get it independantly valuated before commiting to buy?

    If it actually is a decent price, do we go ahead?

    If it is over priced do we cut our losses at 5K and run?

    Should we cut our losses now and run?

    Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for any help, I just don't know what to do. I would name the company but I don't know the legal side of naming companies on forums.

    Thanks again

    You could not claim that expense as a deduction as it relates to the future purchase of a property. At best it would only be claimable off the capital gains when the property is sold. at worse it will not be deductible at all.

    This contract you have entered into may have a cooling off period. I would suggest you quickly get legal advice and then immediately write to them (and keep records) saying you with to withdraw from the contract.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    It need not be fixed each account could be variable or fixed, each could be IO or PI etc doesn't matter as long as the accounts are separate.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    No. Not exactly.

    You can always withdraw from a loan. But this is treated as new borrowings. So the interest on this new loan will only be deductible if you use the funds for investment or business purposes.

    If you withdraw for private expenses you will create further problems as the loan will become mixed purpose and you will have to apportion the interest each year.

    Best thing to do is to split the loan into 2 accounts that way you can clearly distinguish the 2

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Meggyb7 wrote:
    Hi Blockey, thanks for this information.  I'm looking at setting up the right structure, I will be buying properties to renovate and either sell or hold.  I currently have a family trust with a company trustee and a separate 'trading' company which is registered for GST.  I know that the structure will depend on my personal circumstances but wanted thoughts from those who have already been doing this as a business to get some insider knowledge (which I don't have yet!).  I really appreciate all the comments I'm getting as it really helps with my own thoughts about the best structure.  Thanks again everyone, really appreciate your help!

    You could possibly use the existing non trading trust. But you should consider the terms of the deed, who plays what roles, existing assets of the trust (potentially exposed) and the strucutre of the trustee company – constitution, shareholders, directors, shareholder agreements,

    Also succession of appointor on your death or incapacity, including legal incapacity same with the company.

    However, using a fixed unit trust may be worth looking at. Later on you will have the option of transferring the units to a SMSF, being paid cash for the units and usin the funds to pay off any non deductible debts. Once in the SMSF and you are over 55 the income and CG from the property could be totally exempt from tax.

    Also refinancing principal means you could borrow for non deductible items and have the interest claimable.

    Stamp duty on transfer nil or lower than transferring title.

    Many advantages of a unit trust. You can even achieve asset protection by having the units owned by a properly drafted discretionary trust.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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    GST generally only payable on new property. You have to consider if this would result in the property being classed as new – check the GST Act – New Tax System……..Act

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Asset protection first – you wouldn't want to lose that $200k

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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