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My be little point in putting your wife on the loan as she would reducce serviceability but you would be doubly at risk if things go wrong. Of course there are other reasons to consider too.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Land tax is an additional problem to consider – possible concessions in vic, but not NSW. Stamp duty would be the same whether trust or individual.
Loss of the land tax exemption and the CGT exemption are the major reasons to avoid using a DT. However it may be worthwhile for some people. I have many specialist medical clients, lawyer clients yet none live in a trust owned property – but I have a 'business man' who does.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Ynchai wrote:Thank you so much for your replies. Really helpful.@terryw, i just read the tax case you referred to, it sounds like the interest on creating capital is not tax deductible, and construction could ve argue as capital creation even with intention to rent out the property so based on this case, it wont be tax deductible during construction. Am i reading the case correctly?
Outgoings of interest are a recurrent expense. The fact that borrowed funds may be used to purchase a capital asset does not mean the interest outgoings are therefore on capital account (see Steele 99 ATC 4242 at 4249; (1999) 41 ATR 139 at 148).
See TR 2004/4
Income tax: deductions for interest incurred prior to the commencement of, or following the cessation of, relevant income earning activities
http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?Docid=TXR/TR20044/NAT/ATO/00001Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Depends on the circumstances, but generally you would if it is your intention to rent the property out once it is complete, the precedent case is "Steele"
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Mgs4 wrote:Terryw wrote:Mgs4 wrote:Normally do mortgage brokers have websites or PDF docs with loan comparisons on key metrics eg interest rates, annual fees, maximum LVR etc. As loans are relatively commoditized products the main variables are total costs (ir, fees etc.) and ease of application (LVR and other relevant constraints). The tricky thing I find is brokers can access different rates to what the average person can, so using online comparison websites often isn't on accurate comparison if your going to go through a broker.Yes, most brokers would have such soft ware which compares all costs of various loans.
But is this normally provided to the client or do brokers normally like to keep this internally as their "value add"?
provided
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
PCF Investor wrote:Hi Guys,Just like the subject states. What happens if I used the equity of house A to buy house B and then wanted to sell house A? Is there a more effective way of structuring the loan to have a better outcome?
Cheers
Depends how you have structured it.
If cross collateralised, the one loan will be secured by 2 properties. so you will need to gain the lenders permission to release the sold property. This generally won’t be a property if you are releasing the investment property secured by your PPOR – usually the release won’t effect the loan on the PPOR.
But imagine you have a PPOR and then use this to borrow 105% for the investment property. You then sell the PPOR. The bank will only release this security if the LVR on the investment property will be an acceptable level, such as 80% lvr. This may mean you need to pay down this investment property loan = not idea because when you go to get your new PPOR you will have less cash which means higher non deductible debt.
—
Another way to use equity is to borrow from a LOC on one propertyand then use ‘cash’ for deposit and no cross collateralising.
If you sell either property there is no requirement to pay down loan if either property sold. You would need to discharge the loans on the property securing it, ie the loc on property A, but the remaining loan would not need to be reduced. For tax reasons things may be different – sale of an investment property may mean you cannot keep claiming interest on any loans kept open – depending on the circumstances.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Mgs4 wrote:Normally do mortgage brokers have websites or PDF docs with loan comparisons on key metrics eg interest rates, annual fees, maximum LVR etc. As loans are relatively commoditized products the main variables are total costs (ir, fees etc.) and ease of application (LVR and other relevant constraints). The tricky thing I find is brokers can access different rates to what the average person can, so using online comparison websites often isn't on accurate comparison if your going to go through a broker.Yes, most brokers would have such soft ware which compares all costs of various loans.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Why should I do it?
How do I do it?
Where do I go to do it?
How long does it take to set up?
If I settle on a property one week from now and I need to change the sale of contract and loan from being in my own name to a trust, can it be done in a week?
1. A trust is a legal arrangement where A holds property for B. You may do this to benefit your family members for years to come, to make it tax effective, estate planning and to make the investment tax effecient.
2. Generally a trust deed is executed and someone called a settlor hands over some sort of property to the trustee and asks them to hold this on trust. Initial property is usually $10 for stamp duty reasons
3. Solicitor
4. 30 seconds – but you need to allow preparation time, thinking time etc
5. Best to do it before you exchange contracts. You will need to redo the loans, consider stamp duty implications, asset protection implications and deposit. Speak to a lawyer quickly as it may still be doable (not a conveyancer!). Also speak to your broker next, or maybe first.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Of course you need to state your name when entering a contract – otherwise who would the contract be with? If you don't want to put your name you could speak to a lawyer about using a nominee or a bare trustee to sign contract – beware of stamp duty implications.
No strict need for an address but this is common as you need to be indentifable – there may be many John Smiths out there, so the address would distinguish them.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
You may live in SA, but where are the investment properties? If in Vic you could transfer without stamp duty.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
darkness72 wrote:Thanks for the advice,Goes to show – speaking to the ATO over the ph – they're not always right, would want it in writing
Good news – The bank has come through with a deposit loan – so no mixing – woohoo
ATO phone people are rarely correct!
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
I don't rebate any commissions, in fact I actually charge people who ask me to rebate. They are not the sort of clients that I want, so I am happy if they leave and happy if they stay (and pay a fee!)
However I do offer many clients extras with discounts or without charge. Good clients often get offered free legal advice or testamentary trust set ups for free etc.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
You can do it all yourself – just like dental surgery or cornia transplants. But it may not be a good idea as you don't know what your don't know.
I had a client come in and see me about something and in passing he told me he was buying his wife's share of an investment property. However the way he structured it none of the interest on teh loan would have been deductible because of a simple but crucial mistake. Also he was not aware of the succession aspects, but it was the tax mistake that was the biggy.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
wilko1 wrote:Does anyone know If you own a property outright in your Superfund. (Ie you had a previous non recourse loan that has now paid off)Can you take finance out against that property up to 80% again (Ie a new non recourse loan)
No you cannot. Borrowing can only be done to acquire an asset.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
TPI wrote:This is a unit trust arrangement that I think most people should stay clear of.There are some benefits, but for most people it's overkill.
It was also promoted under a "hybrid discretionary trust" structure and a "Property Investors Trust".
I think everyone should beware of statements such as this. It is not correct to say most people should stay clear, perhaps better to say this is something that may not suit most people but there is nothing wrong with this strategy. It is one of many strategies and may be considered.
It is not the same as a hybrid discretionary trust. completely different.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Tate wrote:Terryw wrote:CGT is a commonwealth tax so no matter where it is there would be tax payable. Stamp duty is state based, in NSW you would pay 0.6% stamp duty on the transfer of the shares which would be much less than transferring title to the property. Also stamp on shares in private companies are supposed to be abolished at some time – possibly next july.Thanks Terry.
Would the stamp duty abolishment affect all companies established after July next year? Or would it affect companies all companies irrespective of when established?
Also, do you know how the shares in a private company are valued? Because, when one establishes a company, they issue $1 (or so) shares. What happens if someone sells those shares to someone else for $1? (in terms of CGT and stamp duty calculation)
Thanks again
Tate, it would apply to transfer of shares. Establishment date wouldn’t likely affect things – but it may not come in as it was supposed to be abolished 2 years in a row and has been pushed back. Victorian company shares can be transferred without duty i believe.
Value of shares would depend on the value of the company and this would depend on the value of the land owned by it. For CGT and stamp duty it is the market rate that counts not the transfer amount.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
Tate wrote:Hi terry,Thanks for your reply.
Regarding:
Terryw wrote:Disposal of shares by a trust would result in CGT and stamp duty in some states. As the discretionary trust must vest then this will result in the CGT down the track too.I am in NSW. I'm not sure if CGT and stamp duty applies.
However, if I understand the situation correctly, the CGT and stamp duty would be payable on the shares, which would be lower in value than the value of the property that is the principle place of residence. Or is that incorrect?
I'm not in SA, so I don't think the PIT is viable for me. As I said, asset protection is my main concern.
Thanks
CGT is a commonwealth tax so no matter where it is there would be tax payable. Stamp duty is state based, in NSW you would pay 0.6% stamp duty on the transfer of the shares which would be much less than transferring title to the property. Also stamp on shares in private companies are supposed to be abolished at some time – possibly next july.
The PIT is nothing special. Any trust properly set up in SA would potentially have the ability to have no vesting date – however this doesn’t mean they won’t need to vest after 80s
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
The holder of the shares would be the trustee of the trust. This would generally be another company or individual(s).
Disposal of shares by a trust would result in CGT and stamp duty in some states. As the discretionary trust must vest then this will result in the CGT down the track too.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
There are an infinite number of ways (exaggeration maybe) to set something like this up. It will all depend on heaps of factors:
– individual circumstances
– which state
– stamp duty
– land tax
– your family situation
= asset protection issues
– succession issues
– degree of trust
– equity
– need to bring in more partners
etc
etc
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au
If you are doing this as a business then no CGT, just income.
Parternship of 2 individuals may not be the best idea, depending on the circumstances.
Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
http://www.Structuring.com.au
Email MeLawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au



