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  • Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    @terryw
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    Nue1 wrote:
    Hi all,

    First of all, thanks for all the inputs.

    The reason why I want to start now and don't want to (well I can at the same time) reduce my debt is, I plan to buy my first IP, then after considerable amount of time of holding (1-2 years), I can benefit from capital gain (not negative gearing, aiming at positive gearing or neutral), then sell the property off for capital gain to reduce my debt, or keep holding the property, release the equity out and buy another property, rather than keep savings and savings and pay the debt off. Well of course, that is depends on the location whether or not is it a good capital growth area. Due Diligence.

    And yes, there are upside and downside to this strategy of mine, I can just put all these savings I have at the moment and close all the bad debts, but my thought is why don't I benefit from property and invest first? I can continue to save money after I buy the property at the same time.

    I might have to speak to mortgage broker out about whether my debts will bring down the borrowing power or not. If not then I will go for joint names, if yes it will affect the borrowing power I will get my friend to be the sole owner with agreement contract behind that.

    Question is how much will it cost my friend and I to obtain this agreement contract and from who? Solicitor? Lawyer?

    Thanks guys.

    Regards,

    Nue1

    A solicitor is a lawyer and only a lawyer can prepare deeds and agrements. Could be $1200 to $2000 or so for such an agreement.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    jer29e wrote:

    Hi

    I would appreciate it if you could advise me on my situation. I have some equity in my PPOR and the property is in my name. I am about to start a rather high risk business and do not want to risk losing the equity if I get sued.

    Are there any way to protect my equity?

    i heard that there is an equity bank trust (EBT) in which I can give the equity of my property to the trust eg $200k and the trust will give me a secured loan for $200K. that way should I get sued the creditors will be below the first mortgage and the equity bank trust. I understand that i will be the director of the EBT trustee. Can the loan documents from a related entity(  EBT) stand in court and protect my assets? the loan is not registered on the title of the property.

    Thanks very much  for your help.

    There are a few promoters out there promoting this sort of thing – but none of them lawyers from what I can see.

    How do you gift equity is what I would like to know. You can let a trustee take a second mortgage over your property, but a mortgage is only security for something – usually for borrowing money. So if you lend money to a trust that money is always your money and still available for creditors. If the arrangement is non commercial then the bankruptcy act has provisions which can unwind any such transaction.

    There may be other ways to structure which are cheaper and more effective about 5 years after they are set up

    I think your $20k may be better spent. Sell your property and spend the proceeds – if you are really worried. Then start again afresh structuring well from the get go.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Any non deductible debt?

    What if you sold the one with the most equity and paid off your non deductible debt (if any) and then parked the rest in the offset account attached to an investment property?

    How would that effect cashflow?

    or

    What if you sold the one which will result in the least amount of CGT – how would that work out?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I would suggest you consider to buy under friend's name only. You can set up structures which will cost money and result in cashflow issues or just keep it simple. Joint names would mean you on title too – that may be possible or may not considering your debts. If it won't hold you back then both names, if it will then friend only with you assisting. You can then have an agreement drawn up so as to split expenses and profits.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    r.m.investment wrote:
    I just built an investment property in QLD and it’s now rented out. I used a national buyer’s agent to set the deal up, as I’m in Vic. I was expecting the rental income to be just over $400pw, but they ended up rented it for $445pw on a 2 year lease in the first two days.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                The house and land price added up to $438,000 and I owe the bank around $449,000 (purchase + Stamp Duty on the land + costs, etc). The bank valuation on completion was $462,000. I have an interest-only mortgage, with an offset account on this investment property. The offset account has approximately $36,000, but I will soon receive $9,000 from a rebate the buyer’s agents negotiated for me, which will be added to the offset.

    My annual income is approximately $85,000 and I have put in a tax variation. The property is cash positive by about $30 pw before the offset is taken into account.

    So here is my question, should I let the $45,000 stay in the offset account or should I utilise this money in another way?

    BTW: my mortgage on the PPoR is $420k or 40% LVR

    Any suggestions please.

    Regards,

    Sounds good. But I agree that the money in the offset should be on the PPOR – you are losing money having the cash in the IP offset.

    And what was that $9k rebate?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Yes that is correct. Prior year capital losses could offset capital gains – with the same person. You should seek advice though to make sure your losses are captial and have been carried forward.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    RouiRoui wrote:
    Hi,

    Just wondering if tis is an option or makes sense?

    thought about greeting a loan with a line of credit.  It is for our home not an investment.

    we have enough money to deposit into the lin of credit for it to be a zero balance from the get go.

    is this a sensible option, are we missing anything, or is their anything else we should be asking the bank about!

    cheers.

    Generally not a good idea, there are serious tax consequences.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    By capacity, I meant mental capacity.

    There are plenty of ways your mum could lose her money, so to protect her and yourself you each should see separate lawyers and nut this out. It is doable but should be done properly as there are so many issues involved.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    BomberRoui wrote:
    Morning,

    I'm wondering now whether setting up an 100% offset is perhaps the best path?

    Would the benefit be in paying all my income into the variable loan and then using a 40 day interest free credit card for daily purchases.

    Then from the offset account paying the credit card?

    or paying all income into the offset, and then paying for the PI variable loan and credit card from the offset when it falls due?

    This is for PPOR.

    Best to pay in the offset (as long as you are not tempted to spend).

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    BomberRoui wrote:
    Thanks Terry,

    I agree, at least with what you have outlined I still have flexibility and options and can come back to the LOC option when and if required.

    I appreciate you insight.  Cheers.

    Several

    1. You could end up with a mixed purpose loan = messy and more tax

    2. If you ever moved out and rented the property it would be hard to work out how much interest you could claim. Could be a high loan still with no interest deductible.

    3. higher rates on LOC too

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Yes. You cannot settle on the sale under you settle on the purchase. Stamp duty and income tax would apply.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Make sure the loan is secured or mum could lose her money. You also have to consider capacity issues because of her age and be careful of 'elder abuse' allegations – possibly by other family members. You and her should have separate solicitors and she should instruct her solicitor directly without your involvment.

    She should make sure her will is up to date and that the money is appropriately left to the persons she wants to give it to. A testamentary trust would be worth considering – both you and mum (separately of course).

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Probably. An agent is not going to walk about from money that easy.

    Is there a cooling off period? A notice period?

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    BomberRoui wrote:
    Morning All,

    I have come away from an appointment with a lender and I'm still trying to get my head around a Home Equity Loan with a Line of Credit for a new PPR (currently renting).

    This is the working example:

    Property Value: $400,000

    Deposit: $80,000

    Balance: $320,000

    Now this is where the confusion sets in, I'm lead to believe that the $320,000 can be split for example 80% / 20%.

    Variable Loan 80%: $256,000

    Line of Credit (interest only) 20%: $64,000

    Can I draw on the Line of Credit or is it already at its limit?

    Am I better off having a 60% / 40% ratio and thereby decreasing my Principal and Interest repayments?

    I am of the understanding that the Line of Credit is for an infinite time frame on the property if desired.

    What if any strategies should be applied if I follow this route?

    Any other assistance would be greatly appreciated.  I will obviously be quizzing the lender again but I would like to go in again as informed as possible.

    I was going to write "i would strongly recommend against this set up" but then seen you want to use the LOC for business later on.

    In this case I would only suggest this if you are able to fully pay off the LOC before using it for any business related purposes.

    I think a better way would be to set up a PI loan with a 100% offset. Pay minimum and then before you start the business then pay down the loan and apply for a LOC. This will give you flexibilty if you don't go ahead and won't cause any adverse tax issues. Your property would also have grown in value and you could get more LOC possibly.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Say it is a $540,000 property with $40,000 in stamp duty and costs. You have $200k cash.

    Since you are going to rent the property out in the future you would want to borrow 104% of the purchase price. This may be hard to do without other security, but thinking outside the square there are a few strategies.

    Imagine if you you could borrow $580,000. After a while you could move out, rent the place and have the interest on the $580,000 loan fully deductible. You will have access to $200,000 cash for your new PPOR.

    So how do you do it?

    You should seek legal advice about gifting $200,000 to an appropriately set up discretionary trust which you can control. You then borrow 20% deposit from the trust and obtain the other 80% from a major bank. The trust has lent you money so it could take a mortgage over the property after the bank. This will be good asset protection.

    In addition, the trust can lend you the money on a, say, 10 year term with an interest rate of zero percent for the 1st 2 years while you are living there – subject to being allowed in the deed, Once you move out and rent the property the interest rate could be then at commercial rates of around 8% or so – speak to your accountant about how much.

    By the time you move out hopefully the property would have increased in value. Say the value is $725,000. This would enable you to apply for a loan of $580,000 with a major bank  This new loan could be used to pay out the loan to the trust. Refinancing one loan with out doesn't change deductibility of interest so the interest on the new loan should be deductible in full – if set up right.

    Net result is 104% loan. Asset Protection. No extra interest and more tax deductions once you move out.

    Just make sure you get proper advice on this as there are many legal and taxation issues to consider.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Jimmy,

    If it is semi-detached then it may be possible to live in the entire property for a short period. then move out and rent it and use the temporary absence provisions to have the whole property free from CGT for up to 6 years. Depends on many things though so seek tax advice.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    I am a solicitor and a Chartered Tax Adivsor, but not an accountant – located in Sydney.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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    Roxy lacey wrote:
    Thanks terry and  qlds007,

    yes, i do have a lot to learn and will seek professional advice,  can you  let me know how the offset account would work and can I access that money?  Let's assume I purchase a $500,000 property, we put in $1200 a month and we receive $1600 a month in rent, 

    thanks for for being patient with a novice!!

    also, can I purchase more than 1 property with the SMSF loan?

    thanks

    roxy

    You have to distinguish between you and the SMSF. If you purchase a property similar principles apply, but I assume you meant if the SMSF purchases a property and if the rent is $1600 and costs per month, including interest is $1200 then there will be a profit of $400 per month taxed at 15% in the fund. But don't forget there may be non cash deducctions such as depreciation and loan costs, so the taxable profit may be much lower. If the profit is negative, i.e. a loss then this loss can be used to negative gear other income of the fund such as your 9.25% employer contribution. so instead of that being taxed at 15% on entry there may be no tax

    The offset works like this:

    $200,000 loan with $50,000 in offset = interesst payable only on $150,000 of the loan.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Not sure what you mean by that.

    If there is borrowings involved then the property must be held under trust until the loan is repaid. the legal owner is the trustee of this custodian trust. The beneficiary owner is the trustee of the SMSF for the SMSF members. So any income will go to the SMSF to be held in trust for the members until they meet a condition of release.

    Since a SMSF loan cannot be increased it is worth considering obtaining the highest LVR as possible – generally 80% – and then this can be paid down as required, or extra funds parked in the offset account.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Profile photo of TerrywTerryw
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    Maybe i misinterpreted your post, but If you buy in a SMSF the rent cannot be used to pay down your PPOR. Rent received by the SMSF belongs to the SMSF and you can only access your super money once you meet a condition of release.

    Terryw | Structuring Lawyers Pty Ltd / Loan Structuring Pty Ltd
    http://www.Structuring.com.au
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    Lawyer, Mortgage Broker and Tax Advisor (Sydney based but advising Aust wide) http://www.Structuring.com.au

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