[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

March 20, 2012 - 4:15 am

Hi Viral,

It’s completely up to you where you go from here. Yes you are correct in indentifying planners as a first point of call along with listing building companies as an option. In my experience the big builders are generally a lot of trouble and hassle (plus they don’t pay their tradies much so there is some compromise in quality).

Essentially at the beginning you’re best off approaching a surveyor or a planner. They work in conjunction with each other so doesn’t really matter which one you contact first. Also consider using the Surveyor / Draftsman combo as that is probably cheaper than what your planner quoted you to get DA approved + designs. Architects are another option but they’re generally pretty expensive. You’ll need all the existing conditions on site measured, buildings, trees, services, contours etc before you have anything designed, which is why surveyors are the first people on the site. Planners can only get so much information from aerial photos, land.vic.gov, aerial contours and such.

Good luck with the project!

Cheers,

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

March 7, 2012 - 10:55 pm

Thanks for the good feedback! Oh well now you have it for your next project

Cheers,

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

March 7, 2012 - 6:11 am

Hi Rob,

There’s another thread here about townhouse development in Melbourne, which I’m sure will be of use to you!

https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/property-investing/help-needed/4343719

I can give you some help with your subdivision questions though. In my experience the difference between doing the subdivision yourself and paying someone for the entire package is the lodgement of plans to obtain the permits. First is you going down to council yourself, the other is them sending it off for you – you’re essentially paying someone a lot of money to save a small amount of time!

There is a significant difference in costs between the two so I would recommend to you (and everyone else on the forum) is to do as much as you can yourself. Surveyors will manage the subdivision process for you and undertake everything in the correct order etc anyway so you won’t have to worry about that.

Subdivisions are essentially a two-step process, first you’ll have to have the initial site survey done which is used for subdivision design as well as application for a planning/development permit. Following this the subdivision is drawn, a Title Re-Establishment survey is undertaken and lodgement is made to the necessary offices. If you see my website there is a flowchart available for download on the front page which applies to 2 and 3 lot subdivisions in Melbourne. http://www.staceysurveying.com.au/

Depending on the size of the prospective blocks, you might need to have plans for the new dwellings lodged with the permit application. For a straight subdivision for two separate titles (without dwellings designed), as a rule of thumb you will need 250-300sq.m in a “rectangle” shape in the backyard. Here’s the recommended fees from the Surveyors Board for subdivision- which is what those large ‘package deal’ companies charge. http://www.mediafire.com/i/?msti7q5x3asp6nd (click “download image” at the bottom).

We stick to around 60% of these to give you an idea of how much savings are on offer if you do a couple of things yourself (Not to advertise! Just giving an idea of the differences).

Cheers,

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

March 6, 2012 - 12:33 am

Hi Tony,

Not really giving you a direct answer to your query here, but I think the general consensus on all the property forums is that the big builders (those all-in-one packages) are screaming bad news and headaches.

You’d be best getting a project manager, or like you said handle the project yourself if you’ve got a bit of spare time.

If you want I can PM you the details of my architect who can give you a good idea of costs involved in the building process? Also I’ve done a bit of work for a developer in Melbourne CBD who does apartment and townhouse projects with a fantastic end product, so I can ask him who he uses also.

Cheers,
Ashley

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

March 2, 2012 - 10:42 am

Hi fellow forum-ers,

My name’s Ashley (prefer Ash), and as you’ve no doubt already gathered in a Land Surveyor. I’m located in Montrose, Victoria – about 45mins east of Melbourne CBD. I specialize in 2 and 3 lot subdivisions, although we have done quite a few large apartment blocks, inner-city developments and rural subdivisions- for those on other property forums you’ve no doubt seen some of our work.

Rapt I joined the forum last year not just to share my expertise but learn so much about the other aspects of property that you don’t see in my profession. I’m always happy to answer queries and help anyone out with questions on development and subdivision. If you’re not in Vic I’ll do my best to help! (or point you in the right direction).

Look forward to another year on this fantastic forum!

Cheers

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

February 24, 2012 - 1:39 am

Hi Mark,

I’d suggest giving the town planner at Banyule a call and getting a run-down of the council fees involved. Surveyor and Architect/Draftsman fees vary very little from which area of town we’re working in, as it’s just the same process but in a different location.

First you’d want to check out the zoning and see if there are any building envelopes or covenants on the block.

Most of the professionals here are happy to give some free advice on the site in question before you start spending the dollars.

Cheers,

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

February 22, 2012 - 12:19 pm

Hi,

I would recommend finding a local surveyor and having a chat with them. Rural subdivision is relatively straight forward in my experience.

I also suggest talking to your council’s town planner and seeing their view on the development before you start spending. Even though they’ve changed the zoning they might want to keep certain characteristics about the area.

Good luck with the project!

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

January 30, 2012 - 10:13 am

Hi Anandd,

Whoever designs the subdivision can arrange the common property or carriageway easement. This can be either the surveyors, architects, designers or a combination of the above. I mostly see it done after the design of the new dwelling is completed and we know the position of the house and fences according to title (re-establishment of title survey). This is coming from the survey perspective though and there’s always more than one way to do these things.

Cheers

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

January 28, 2012 - 12:07 am

Hi Kris,

Strata subdivisions in Vic are completed and finalized upon completion of the project – or at least when there’s some brickwork up. The surveyor uses the structures for the subdivision.

On the plan of subdivision we show the building extents/footprint rather than the typical bearing-distance boundaries for torrens subdivisions. The reason we do it this way is that we can’t be 100% certain that the builder will put the structure within a few mm of the plans so it’s much safer to do it afterwards. There will be drafts of subdivision before building, but as I said it’s completed when there’s some buildings up.

Hope this answers your queries. I’ve put a flowchart up for Vic subdivisions both on my website and in the value adding section for free download which would be useful for your project.

Cheers

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

January 21, 2012 - 1:12 pm

From a business point of view I can add some suggestions. I work with the same builders regularly for the following reasons:
– Professional, Qualified and Well-Experienced
– Reliability
– Hassle-free
– Keep customers happy from all aspects of the project.
– Are people who I can regularly refer people to.
– Trustworthy

Having flexibility in your quotes is a good idea. I just finished a book “Free” by Chris Anderson, I would recommend it for a read as it demonstrates how the 21st century views services and information as opposed to the previous generations.

I wouldn’t say cut down on the accuracy of your quotes. I like to be thorough as the customer knows exactly what they’re getting – no grey areas. Reputation is such a huge factor in how people form decisions, so don’t give the image of not caring with quotes, as that is the first thing customers see from you.

Just some thoughts anyway!

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

January 19, 2012 - 12:05 am

As Emma said call up council and speak to the town planner there. They’ll be able to give you a good idea of it it’s possible or not.

Where is the block located anyway?

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

January 13, 2012 - 11:37 am

Hi Mike,

Looks like you might need an arborist to come out and have a look. They’ll be able to give you some further information on what you can do with them. I’m not sure what the going rate for arborists are, but the guy I use costs roughly $70 p/hr. Wouldn’t take more than a couple of hours tops for a standard residential block.

All the best with the sale

Cheers,
Ashley

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

January 7, 2012 - 12:01 pm

Good to see you’ve done your research! I assume by R30 you’re located in WA.

I always tell clients to do more than enough research thoroughly to eliminate any future issues. The more the better.

Just a word of advice, look up the processes for development in your state, the steps will be the same from one council to the next, with maybe some little things changed here and there. From some rough research on the rest of Aus, the development processes are roughly the same. You might have noticed I posted up a Subdivision Flowchart on development. I’ve noted all the different professionals that should be involved in the process, call a few places around and get some quotes together and you may be surprised.

I’ve had a few people come to me with unbelievably high prices for turn-key development where huge profits must be made from the developer. I’m not by any means saying this accounts for all developers or professionals in the development industry (I know of some particular companies that prey on peoples lack of research), but there definitely are some dishonest people out there.

Ask your surveyor for a breakdown of the subdivision process and all the council costs involved anyway. A good surveyor will be more than happy to explain every step to you.

Cheers,
Ashley

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

January 7, 2012 - 12:30 am

Sounds like you’ve got it sorted. Seemingly many people go down that road to keep some cashflow going through the building / renovating process. Have you checked out your zoning and current copy of title to see if there are any limitations to development?

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

December 28, 2011 - 8:59 am

Hi Dragon,

These costs are definitely on the higher end of the scale, and I know that there are multiple items here which could have the costs reduced from researching / using good contractors (The survey costs should be 60-70% of what I’ve been quoted!). There are multiple items which wouldn’t really apply in the subdivision itself, for example:

– Driveway construction isn’t really relevant in subdividing itself, more of a building item.
– Drainage typically undertaken in building, along with connecting utilities to the building footprint.
– Field Survey in Stage 1 would be 1.5-1.8k, not 3k.
– Field Survey in Stage 3 would be around $2k, not 5k.

As a general consensus from clients a 2 lot subdivision if you do your research properly would be about half that. I’ve seen a few people saying on here that they’ve done it for ~$30k to get to the ready-to-build stage. Obviously with an ideal site for subdivision it would bring costs down as opposed to say a site up in the sticks. I’d use this as more of a gauge to see the stages broken up from the flowchart I posted.

Cheers,
Ashley

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

December 24, 2011 - 9:29 pm

Hi,

Surveyors and planners are the first point of call in all developments. Surveyors are essentially the guys who measure all the existing site conditions to determine feasibility of the project. Planners put the desired development into action by analyzing survey plans whilst having a thorough knowledge of local planning regulations. By using their know-how a best option can be worked out for your new dwelling(s).

Surveyors will submit all the subdivision work and essentially carry out the process for you from start to finish. You should check out the other topic I’ve posted up with the flow chart of proceedings also.

Cheers,
Ashley Stacey

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

December 23, 2011 - 1:06 am

No worries at all, I’m always happy to help out with queries regarding development etc. There’s just about zero information on the internet about these processes (I suspect because most surveyors are terrible with technology!)

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

December 21, 2011 - 2:15 am

Hi,

Just to reiterate what the other Vic people have said. It’s important in all developments to surround yourself with a great team (in the initial stages you’d be looking for planners, designers, surveyors and real estate agents). Have a look around and see how much townhouses and vacant lots sell for in your targeted area. All the planners I’ve spoken to on this site are fantastic. Zoning information can be found for free via the following link
http://services.land.vic.gov.au/landchannel/jsp/map/PlanningMapsIntro.jsp
If you click on property information you can get a pdf with a summarised description of your zone and any updates to the planning structure.

If you see this link there is a complete description of the fees you should expect in the process https://www.propertyinvesting.com/forums/property-investing/value-adding/4343000?#comment-252239

Also at the following link I’ve recently uploaded a subdivision flowchart for free download. Hopefully will explain things a bit clearer.
http://www.mediafire.com/?jkxmrbthy2s326c

Cheers,
Ashley Stacey

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

December 20, 2011 - 10:17 am

Hi Jack,

First name’s Ashley by the way (common mistake)

For a typical project a customer would send their property details and desired goal for the development.

Next the zoning of the site is searched here: http://services.land.vic.gov.au/landchannel/jsp/map/PlanningMapsIntro.jsp This is a free service for anyone to use and is definitely worth looking at (for Victorian residents). You can click on the property information tab to see a summary of the zoning requirements. If you do a google search of Clause 54 and 55 you should be able to find the complete documents (for those with a bit of spare time). A quick look at nearby subdivisions will give you a good idea of the potential.

In terms of looking at potential profit, you’re best off contacting a local real estate agent. Surveyors are rarely told how much the property was bought or sold for.

Anyone can take some quick measurements off Nearmap / Google Earth to get a rough idea of the square meterage available. For example, in my projects I’ll just about always call up council, or a town planner (for example Breece on here is fantastic) and get additional opinions. If it’s looking like a tight fit for a new dwelling then we will consult my Building Designer to come up with a solution. As with most surveying/development companies the initial research and consultations are at no cost (not to advertise here!).

In all developments and property alike it is vital to surround yourself with a wide range of experts. I have other professionals consult me about the surveying aspect and I’m always happy to call around and confirm things I may not be 100% on. There are many variables in developments so it would be unwise to have an individual take control.

Anyway in regards to your easement query, it depends on the type, location and your budget. There are ways to tackle easements if it is getting in the way, but ideally yes you would like it at the back of the block. I would suggest giving your local council and water authority a call and see what actually is in the easement.

I hope this sheds some light on your query

Cheers,
Ashley

[Stacey SurveyingParticipant@stacey-surveyingJoin Date: 2011Post Count: 138]

December 19, 2011 - 11:01 pm

Also I forgot to add yes it is forwarded from Logan City Council in QLD to Maroondah Council in VIC, however I was told that the principals are somewhat similar.

Cheers,
Ashley Stacey