[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 6, 2012 - 1:32 am

The problem as I see it, Freckle, is the difficulty in compiling figures (which by default will be history) with a market that is so vast and so local.

A lot of the cities in the figures you quote are bigger than Australia in population. Yet individual streets have their own characteristics. You can walk 200m and go from ‘nice’ to ‘nasty’ on some streets – these micro communities on a massive scale will distort figures dramatically and the ‘smart’ guys on the ground like Kyler, Alex, Emma etc can arbitrage this with great success. Jay deals on a level above these guys (he uses these guys to help him pick the eyes out) so he gets a ‘national’ picture and they are all saying the same thing – the bottom has past.

From my own experience, my rentals in a mid scale beachside area of LA are getting busier, but to counter that I would also point out that peak subprime also was very busy – people renting because they were out of their houses elsewhere. My little area was not sub prime affected to any real degree, so I immediately see these ‘US figures’ as a nonsense – like many in the US, it didn’t affect me really, so not my problem:)

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 6, 2012 - 12:31 am

As usual: What Jay said:)

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 6, 2012 - 12:24 am

Maybe you get a return selling your foreclosure to these guys:

http://redgreenandblue.org/2009/03/30/greening-foreclosures-buy-a-home-in-detroit-for-40-and-turn-it-into-a-green-urban-space/

One day it may be a nice place to live again – although I shouldn’t really comment as I haven’t been there*, however I saw a couple of fascinating docco’s on the re-greening of Detroit by bulldozing vast tracts of industrial and residential land and turning it into green space, mini farm plots community gardens and parkland.

I like to buy Australian bushland to ensure its protection from idiot supposed greenies and the complete morons at RFS, but helping create inner city parklands with unsaleable or unrentable property is a noble cause.

.
.

*I have been a witness to Gavin (ABC 730) trying to repair his ‘ready for tenant’ property in Detroit. Aside from the difficulty of finding tradesmen to renovate (it was deemed a waste of time) the investment he was sold by Andrew Allan as being personally chosen for its high rental demand is now boarded up to hopefully reduce its kerbside appeal to squatters.

I have made some big-gamble plays in RE, but I have learnt that whilst the ‘hope and pray’ strategy may pay off in time, it is not something I need to present and explain to my accountant or the ATO at the end of the year…

The Auto industry is doing better, but why would anyone want to take such crazy risks when it is totally unnecessary. 6% in a bank in Oz is an unheard of number for Gavins $65,000, that is STILL costing him a fortune without a single rent cheque.

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 3, 2012 - 9:55 pm

Qualified isn’t perfect, but it is a start – and there is a legal recourse (of sorts).

I would rather buy from a legal crook than an illegal one:)

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 3, 2012 - 9:10 pm

Except this guy buys from wholesalers – and doesnt care what he gets.

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 3, 2012 - 4:13 am

Licenced? Qualified? If you don’t even need to be competent why would you bother with anything that would require hard work? I would be very surprised if he is even in the US on anything other than a tourist Visa.

If you are in the area, check out his office at 201 N Magnolia (at least it was very recently). It might be interesting to have a professional visit a genuine LLC scam artist in his lair:)

If you know a local agency to complain to, please pass on the details to Richard Davies (Gavin) on this website.

These guys are giving your industry a bad name and hurting the RE market.

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 2, 2012 - 9:02 am

No need to rush Gavin, all in your good time. I was just trying to get the investment picture that you were 'sold' in a nuts and bolts form. On paper, your Andrew Allan deal looks good so far and you also had a great personal recommendation from someone you respected – just like 99.99% of Bernie Madoff's clients.

I think it is important people see exactly where it started to fall apart, the bad stuff hasn't happend in your detailed time line – yet!

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 2, 2012 - 7:34 am

Quickchick,
Nor do I have any interest in a public slanging match with yet another USproperty company as I have been quite busy enough trying to help people see some of the more obvious scams for exactly what they are.
I congratulate you on getting an E2, it puts you a long way above most other operators, but the facts as they seem to be are that you have flipped 2 properties in the US and have read (probably devoured) Steve's US Property Power Pack thingy. You do live in the US (now) and visted 3 times in 2011. Your site appears to require registration which I assume will give you no more information than you could gleen from the net in Australia. One of the properties you show before and after photo's of looks to me suspicously like a mobile (I say suspciously because I may be wrong) – something Steve also portays as examples in his USA PP thingy, but a clear danger sign for those who know. All around it just doesn't engender confidence in me at all. Add to that something I see a major red flag with –  'the property is in the name of the clients LLC'. It is appreciated that you are pointing out you are not buying directly from some flippers Aladdins Cave, but I have to assume from that comment you yourselves have no US real estate qualifications whatsoever and are merely putting people (valued clients?) in touch with businesses that are licenced?

I am particularly drawn to this comment which (aside from you appearing legally unqualified) I think goes to the heart of my concerns:

"………..Our connections can save people time (how long does it take to arrive in a new city and meet competent rehab people?)….."

The answer to that question I would measure in years!!  

With any of this US property stuff, the big problem is management and that does not even appear to be touched upon – understandably because you have explained quite well you do not have any experience whatsoever in that as yet.

Again I say I applaud what you are personally setting out to do, but despite you no doubt being very nice people I stand by my comments above and suggest you learn about what it is you are doing yourselves before you try to 'assist' others. That may sound harsh, but if you are setting out to do the right thing, paying regard to a comment like that I can all but promise you will save you weeks of sleepless nights while you worry about the spot fires your inexperience will have created. At least, I hope you would lie awake at night worrying – most do not I am sure.

Being positive for a final note, you are living there and are allowed to work there without having to decamp for 'visa runs'. I also note with some optimism that you are not Andrew Allan and don't seem to be related to Trent Richards. So good so far:)

PS: Very depressingly, my US agent is as far from being female as it is possible to be and even if I was extremely drunk would never appear good looking enough to even suggest anything other than being a middle aged guy:(

PPS: Your comment 'Let me start by saying, I think it's great that you have invested leveraging off someone else's knowledge. A wise move, as many will agree…', Let me finish by saying:) the only thing I leveraged off was the experience of a _qualified and licenced US Realtor_ which is what I strongly suggest everyone does. In short I found an agent I liked and who was prepared to deal with a foreigner and bought properties they had listed, just like anyone else could do. No inexperienced middle man/woman involved anywhere:) 

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 2, 2012 - 4:40 am

Sorry to nit-pick Gavin, but:
Youngstown $12,000 with $6500 to renovate = $18,500
Detroit $27,000 with $8000 to renovate = $35,000

$39,000 worth of property and $14,500 worth of repairs.

What rental were you led to believe you would get once reno's completed? I believe Youngstown was a 4u? and Detroit was SFR?
How long were the reno's going to take?
Was the rental guarantee to rent 'inside' 3 months, or 'for' 3 months?
Did you see photo's of the properties inside and out that you were going to buy?
Finally – it seems from what you said above that the $13,000 was nothing to do with renovating, project managing or anything like that, but merely a 'fee' for looking on the net – am I correct?

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 2, 2012 - 1:34 am

OK Gavin:
You paid
$31,000 for Detroit – a single family home?
$18,500 for Youngstown – I believe a 4u?
$13,000 for 'sourcing' and 'service'.

US$62,000 in total.

I think you said you sent over $75,000AUD (average about .83 on the exchange) either to MyUSA or Andrew Allan directly? So it looks like a bit of money made on the exchange rate – not much, but enough for a very nice night out, and lets face it, if you walked into a bank and demanded that much from them you would be spending time in court explaining why…

Is this all the money you had sent him so far? Any joining fees?

The $13,000 is of course interesting. This paid for Andrew Allan to spend some time online to source you a property through his extensive contacts and get you good property managers – say all up 15-30 minutes maximum online, and I think Emma would have managed that in less than 5, so I am being conservative. Did this include an amount for project management (renovations) etc? or was it just 'sourcing' reputable operators?

Did you receive any rental guarantees or at least rental expectations from Andrew Allan with these properties?

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 1, 2012 - 8:35 am

Deano, without wishing to distract from either Richard's thread or  what you say (and it isn't really wrong, though I am with Ziv and Emma 100%) we could have ALL been caught in the beginning. Richard is very brave, he must have been one of the first few to be caught and went out and found good people to help him solve a major problem – yes he was naive, but fixing it and admitting it takes guts, he has also learnt very fast and is doing a great service to everyone with this post. Imagine how hard it is to accept you have probably lost your entire savings, then to have to relive it first by spending 2 years fighting with the guy who accepted your money, then proving it to investigative journalists and finally rubbing salt in the deep wounds by putting it up for public consumption?

As Emma said above, these guys portray themselves as experts. They are not. They are expert at getting your money in their hands and little else.

The worst rip off Richard experienced through Andrew Allan was discovered very recently by a chance 'did anyone check this?' moment from Emma above. And it was something so basic it would have caught me, not 'could' but 'would' – and I kid myself I sort of know what I am doing in the US. 

There but for the grace of god go us all. As I have said many times, what annoys me most is it gives a good industry a very bad name.

Digression: You also have to remember the US is harder edged than Australia. In Ziv's world (I don't know for sure, but I could put money on it) this type of thing would be completely unheard of. COMPLETELY. I signed a customs form this morning in Tokyo with an expensive sterling silver mont blanc pen. I have carried this pen with me for nearly 15 years so it has sentimental value as well. I got to the bus outside the terminal and realised I lost it. I talked my way BACK through customs and when I got to the baggage area a girl came rushing up with a gift wrapped package containing my pen. Try explaining to those people (the people of Ziv's world) how they could be ripped off tens of thousands buying real estate…

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 1, 2012 - 5:14 am

I note with interest the subject line has been changed.

It may well do to read what Gavin has to say, because myself, Emma, my US agent and the legal arm of the ABC agree with Gavin that this was an appalling text book scam. Whilst I can understand you wishing to delete words like 'scam' under threat, let me assure you and anyone reading this that there is no other word in the English language that better describes what happened than 'scam'.

I would suspect the delightful Andrew Allan may have been in contact to get the retraction. If he has he is probably reading this. If he is reading this, he knows exactly what is going to be told and if he had any decency at all would be running barefoot over broken glass to do his best to assist Gavin extract himself from the very deep bear pit that the great Andrew Allan mercilessly and deliberately (or at the very least totally incompetently) dumped him in.

I haven't spoken with Gavin about this, but I suspect all Gavin would want is a fair outcome for him. God knows it is what he deserves. I FULLY support Gavin posting on this site, and FULLY support his choice of words in the title. Rather than getting upset when people call a spade a spade Mr Allan, why not go to the root of the issue and start solving problems you have caused rather than covering up and obfuscating? Or are you concerned that if you do help Gavin you may have to help dozens (at least) of others and the profits you claim not to have made will disappear?

This is going to be a rivetting post!! It hasn't even started yet!!!!

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

May 1, 2012 - 4:26 am

quickchick wrote:

We are not so arrogant as to think we are area experts after 1 month! 

Ruth.

propertyinvestingusa.com 

So why in gods name are you attempting to flog your lack of experience to others? This is exactly the type of operation that makes me very nervous. I used to be open minded until I saw first hand exactly how this can end in tears.

Steve (above) went and spent time with someone who clearly knew what they were doing and had basically spent their entire lives in the same area. I've done OK in RE in the US but the only reason I have done that is because (like Steve) I went out and found an expert I felt (for whatever reason) comfortable with. Pre internet that was very difficult and time consuming to do, but the work I put in was worth it.

I have no issue with you (or anyone else) going to the US armed with a US Property Power Pack written by an Australian with only a smattering of understanding of the US market and having a go yourself, but to foist that inexperience on others and use that inexperience to sell a product I do have issues with. The only thing that makes me at all comfortable with what your website says is that you (unlike a LOT of others) do make it clear you have no experience to speak of at all.

I am sure you are nice people, but I only looked at your website because your posts conveyed a total lack of experience and understanding. Unfortunately your website merely confirmed this. You can make good money investing for yourself, but please avoid involving your advice/inexperience and other people's money – I can all but guarantee tears and suffering….

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

April 30, 2012 - 8:42 am

And your last paragraph Steve was exactly why we persisted so long to get the story told. You could not have done better with your research. An you did it without joining fees, VIP tours, Inventory inspections, in house finance and all the other accoutrements designed to trap the ‘astute invetsor’.

Well Done!!

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

April 29, 2012 - 11:09 pm

This information is gold for people. Obviously I have some knowledge (though far from detailed) of what is going to be explained to people now and I think many will be shocked. I couldn’t believe some of the things that were done to Gavin – I’m sure you won’t either.

Gavin deserves a lot of support from everyone for attempting to help other people by explaining how he was trapped.

Thanks from everyone in advance Gavin – this will be a riveting read.

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

April 29, 2012 - 12:15 am

I have been privately ‘spruiking’ US property to my friends for 10+ years. They weren’t interested, now they want ‘bargains’ and have almost all bought through Emma but no one has even bothered to contact my broker in LA (Marty Stone). I use $100k to buy an $800k building, most seem to prefer to buy 2 $50k foreclosures for $100k.

It isn’t easy dealing in the US or with the US, but it ticks along nicely and has massively outperformed my appalling superannuation.

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

April 29, 2012 - 12:09 am

No – it actually increased in value. More tenants = increased rents = higher valuation = happy days… I sold my worst building for a profit (small) at the absolute bottom of the market.

It doesn’t take much to build up a portfolio once you start. It probably sounds a lot to begin with, but would be nothing compared to Jay, Alex etc… Just build up one at time.

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

April 28, 2012 - 11:38 pm

I was wild and crazy and about 15 years ago went to LA to buy US property, made about 1000 phone calls in the space of 3 weeks and finally found a broker who helped me. I have now bought about $10m worth and wouldn’t buy through any one of the numerous Australian LLC pedlars that have sprung out of the same trough that used to provide the worlds snake oil salesmen.

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

April 28, 2012 - 9:28 pm

Nothing against LLC’s – as you said put your property IN LLC’s. Don’t buy someone else’s LLC that may (or may not – particularly if you deal with Andrew Allan) have a property in it. Big difference!

These guys are not Real Estate agents, they are not allowed to legally sell real property (probably not allowed to even work in the US) so they get around that by buying and selling LLC’s.

They are buying something they know nothing about and selling to someone after adding a bewilering range of fees and charges onto the purchase price.

I hope everyone understands.

[lawsjsParticipant@lawsjsJoin Date: 2002Post Count: 252]

April 28, 2012 - 12:26 pm

Thanks. Interesting for me, but these ‘bad guys’ don’t sell RE they sell LLC’s…

I