All Topics / General Property / Who’s research do you believe?

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  • Profile photo of JuichiJuichi
    Member
    @juichi
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 6

    I have been doing some in depth research of several suburbs around Victoria. Something that is becoming bery obvious is the wide variation in data between sources. For example the 12 month capital growth Hillside 3037. SQM lists it at -2.3%, Investar (which I have subscription to) lists it as +9.3%, Your Investment Property Magazine lists it as +5%, Australian Property Investor magazine lists it as +3.1%, Realestate.com lists it as +3%. So who is right? Some of these results are wildly different. It makes it very difficult to compare suburbs for investing when the research can't even agree on the same suburb. The 12 month capital is just an example and most other sales data for everything ranging from median price to Days on Market can range just as wildly.

    So as a general question and begging for an explanation, WHO DO I BELIEVE?

    Cheers
    Juichi

    Profile photo of Don NicolussiDon Nicolussi
    Participant
    @don
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 1,086

    So working backwards you could ask a different question. Are you a buy hope and pray investor. If yes then these figures are very important. Hang on, or are they? Aren't they just record or historical data rather then predictors of future growth. To work out what is going to happen in the future you will have to do buckets of research and then do what some people call "take a position".

    When you take a position you use all the available data and back yourself. What is happening in the economy and macro front. Forget about the housing itself. Strangley this is one of the last indicators you should use at it is lagging two to 5 years behind the drivers that cause the growth in prices.

    Don Nicolussi | Mortgage Broker - Home Loan Warehouse
    http://homeloanwarehouse.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    "I think of finance as a technology, a way of getting things done." Robert Shiller

    Profile photo of Scott No MatesScott No Mates
    Participant
    @scott-no-mates
    Join Date: 2005
    Post Count: 3,856

    If you want to know the growth rate, get friendly with a local agent then ask them for a list of the last 5 years sales for the area. Then analyse these sales figures. Do it by category ie Units 1 bed, 2 bed, 3 bed units, then do similar with houses/villas/duplexes and compare year on year sales. If you are really serious, compare the properties ie similar age/new.

    Profile photo of SteevgSteevg
    Participant
    @steevg
    Join Date: 2007
    Post Count: 14

    I agree (in principle) with Don:-

    What's the job market like?

    Any big companies employing or intending to employ?

    Is unemployment reducing or growing?

    Are there any other factors bringing people or families to the area in the coming years – schools, Universities etc.?

    Go see the planning officer for a chat – what do they want to see happen – can you help – residential, commercial?

    These questions will be a better guide IMHO.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
    Blocked
    @freckle
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,680
    Juichi wrote:
    So as a general question and begging for an explanation, WHO DO I BELIEVE? Cheers Juichi

    Each outfit presents its own data that comes from disparate data bases. Differences are accounted for in methodology, time frame, data sets, correction methods etc. Stats cannot predict the future so actual figures are worthless. The value is defining trends from the data. So while different publishers may disagree on actual figures or their accuracy is questionable the trends they reveal are the value in the information if they support each other.

    Profile photo of JuichiJuichi
    Member
    @juichi
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 6

    Thank you Everybody,

    Don and Steevg, I take your point about it is the future that matters, not so much the past. I am very much trying NOT to be a buy, hope and pray investor and was trying to do the right thing and research lots of different areas to try and narrow down the area’s that met my overall strategy. I think I got bogged down in the figures and got very confused and frustrated on the day.

    I have decided to stick with basically one data provider. Even if the data is not perfect, it will hopefully allow me to look at the historical trends and allow comparison with other suburbs and then further research the future prospects of those areas. I am also a bit the reverse and reading and listening to predictions for future growth areas and then researching them for historical comparison.

    So thanks for the big picture face slap, I needed it.

    Profile photo of FreckleFreckle
    Blocked
    @freckle
    Join Date: 2012
    Post Count: 1,680
    Juichi wrote:
     I have decided to stick with basically one data provider.

    You need two at least to confirm the data, assumptions used etc corroborate each other. There is very little time taken in collecting and assessing this sort of industry stats so you should make use of what's available. 

    Minimal stats amongst other things might lead you to prospects with potential. You need to use everything available to you when making a final analysis. You learn over time what is reliable and what is not. Experience will also help reduce the amount of information you need to filter in order to arrive at a decision. 

    Profile photo of Henry AdamsHenry Adams
    Member
    @henry-adams
    Join Date: 2011
    Post Count: 105

    What about using RPData ?

    usually I go to the website http://www.onthehouse.com.au/ to know the rough figure and then do physical inspection of the property before making any further steps.

    Profile photo of Dave WardDave Ward
    Participant
    @dave-ward
    Join Date: 2004
    Post Count: 37

    Hi Juichi,

    Its a pretty big topic the topic of property investment area research and one where you will have many people tell you their method/data is superior to someone else's. Basically I have done a thesis on property research at Uni, invested in many properties of my own, built and developed around $50 million worth or high rise unit apartments and renovated units too. It wasn't until I started to do the developments that I realized how important focused research of an area actually was. Basically in easy to understand terms, you need a demand/supply imbalance in the market in order for the area to grow in value. 

    Property research is therefore broken up into 2 categories being statistical and fundamental. Because there are 15,000 suburbs around Australia, I needed to come up with a rating system to pinpoint the suburbs that have a demand/supply imbalance in them now and as such have the best chance of increasing in value well over the state average and in turn give you the ability to purchase more property and increase your wealth at a much quicker rate than most investors in the market. Obviously property investment is much better if you can time the market more efficiently rather than sit and wait for 5 years for any growth to occur, so this helps do that for us and our clients.

    Our rating system rates each suburb out of 500 and each category is weighted according to the importance it has in the demand/supply balance. A brief outline of what they are is as follows:

    1. Number of Days a house unit in the suburb is on the market – The lower the better, this shows a higher demand for that type of dwelling in the area. If the number of days have been decreasing over the past 6 months this is even better

    2. % of vendor discounting – The lower this number the better as it shows that buyers have less choice and less ability to negotiate. It also indicates a suburb could be in high demand

    3. Auction Clearance Rate – The higher the better. Higher numbers indicate a higher demand

    4. Rental Yield – The higher the better as it indicates a higher demand in the area from renters who are prepared to pay more to live there.

    5. % of Stock on Market – The lower this number is the more demand a suburb has and the higher the chance of getting a premium for the property is

    6. Online Search Interest – Takes the total number of online searches in an area and divide this by the number of properties available for sale in an area. The higher this number is, the more potential demand the suburb has and the lower the supply in the market is to fulfil the demand

    7. Rental Vacancy Rate – The lower this % the better it is for investors and the more demand a suburb has

    8. Proportion of Renters to Owners – The lower this number the better a suburbs perception is. Owners have a tendency to look after their properties a little better than renters and therefore lift the perception of an area’s quality

    If these metrics combined give us a rating that indicates the demand is exceeding supply (market is imbalanced), then we move onto the fundamental searches to validate the statistical data.

    Fundamental Indicators

    1. Proximity to Water/Ocean

    2. Views of Hills/Mountains

    3. Transport Infrastructure – Recently announced, in progress or to be shortly started that will reduce commute times to the CBD and increase demand for a suburb

    4. The ripple effect of close suburb neighbours. If suburbs within close proximity have grown substantially recently, the chances are that the subject suburb will grow quickly in order to maintain a pricing balance between the growth suburb and the subject suburb

    5. Project Booms – Are there any large projects nearby that will create a spike in demand (Mines, desalinisation plants, shipping ports, pipelines)

    6. Ugly Ducklings – Has the suburb been branded rough or ugly in the past and the only problem with the suburb is its reputation? Are private buyers updating their properties in the area? Are developers buying up new land and building new apartments? Are businesses and trendy cafes entering the area now?

    7. Urban Renewal / Government Works – Has the government put forward a proposal to improve the appeal of an area (Parks, malls, entertainment, shopping precincts)

    8. Lifestyle Features – Are there any lifestyle amenities nearby like golf courses, large entertainment precincts, tourist attractions

    If those 2 searches reveal that the suburb is a potential hotspot, then we drill down to find the best streets within the suburb and then find developments within close proximity to those to give the best chance of fast capital gains.

    The data houses like Residex, RP Data and SQM Research provide data that fluctuates greatly, but is best used as a potential source to gather suburb shortlists for investigation from. The issue with these data providers is that they don't provide past issues of recommendations to gauge performance by. The trend of a suburb of interest is of particular value when deciding whether a suburb is worth fundamentally investigating. For example, it is no good going off to investigate a suburb that has been growing at 15%p.a. for the past 5 years. Like everything in life, when one area gets too expensive, people will compromise on the next best cheaper alternative until the prices of surrounding less desirable suburbs catch up.

    There is so much more that could be written on the topic, but those items will give you a basic template of what you can use to instigate your research model for superior returns of investment properties. 

    Dave Ward | Geronimo Finance
    http://www.geronimofinance.com.au
    Email Me | Phone Me

    Property Investor, Property Investment Expert & Advisor, Finance Expert & Strategist

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