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  • Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
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    @jpcashflow
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    Hi All,

    <moderator: edit subject> Firstly i hope every one has a safe and up coming Christmas.

    In my opinion it looks like the economy is really starting to show some major cracks. By this being said there are allot of opportunities that are starting to present them selves.

    An example of this is i had a IP in Hoppers Crossing Vic, i bought it two years ago for 220k and sold after a year and a bit for 300k.

    The same house is on the market again at 260k and it still has not sold after 3 months on the market.
    My Home has been on the market for one month too in Deer park. We got it valued last year at 420k and got it revalued again this year at 380k.

    We have had a few opens and not even 1 person has even turned up.

    So my point if there is so much opportunity's out there how come no one is pouncing on the properties?

    Cheers

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
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    Profile photo of mafarellymafarelly
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    Hi John

    Merry Christmas to you. Yes there have been some challenges this year, but two interest rate cuts in a row and a solid base we're in overall good shape. Sometimes when looking at our own situation, we can't see the "wood for the trees".

    I got this article through a friend in the US and it helps to get an idea of what others think about the situation we find ourselves in.
    It's another point of view worth looking at.

    In short, the U.S. government is in hock to its eyeballs… And Europe is in worse shape than the U.S. But according to the IMF, Australia will be net debt free by 2020.

    While the U.S. government will stay busy printing money, the Australian government will stay busy cashing mining royalty checks with no end in sight…

    You see, the Australian government owns the mineral and petroleum resources of Australia. (That's different from the U.S., where mineral rights can be privately owned.) And that makes Australia rich…

    Australia is chock-full of commodities that are in demand all around the globe…

    I remember standing in Iceland a couple years ago, staring at a massive aluminum smelter that was a few city blocks long. The raw bauxite was shipped in from Australia – as far across the planet as you could get. In short, the far corners of the world need bauxite… and Australia has it.

    Aluminum is only a tiny part of the big story of Australia's commodity reserves…

    Australia leads the world in "economically recoverable reserves" in many commodities… lead, zinc, uranium, nickel, and more. It ranks second in the world in economically recoverable reserves in gold, silver, copper, and more, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics.

    And then there's "China's Gold" – iron ore… the raw material in steel making. China needs it… Australia's got it.

    "Where on earth is your money safe these days?" That is THE question. When you look at the debt trends, it's NOT safe in America. And it's NOT safe in Europe.

    But the fact that the Australian government owns its resources, and it will be net debt free by 2020, makes Australia a safe country for your money. In a way, the nation's currency – the Australian dollar issued by the government – is solidly "backed" by the country's vast natural resources, owned by the government.

    The major risk here is what happens to Australia if China crashes?

    There's no mistaking the fact that the Australian dollar is highly correlated to commodity prices. Exports of iron and coal alone make up 39% of Australia's total merchandise exports. If China stops buying, Australia will take a big hit.

    However, I think the Australian government is in better shape to handle a crisis than any country in the world. The typical government "tools" to fight back a crisis are to 1) borrow money and 2) cut interest rates.

    With no debt and a very high (4.25%) deposit rate, Australia has plenty of room to do both today.

    I could go on. But you get the idea…

    For the long run, Australia's dollar is safe. And with high interest rates, it's good for the short-run, too.

    Australia might just be the last safe country on earth for your money.

    After that, I'd then read these three articles (and see how you feel about it things after all this!)

    http://www.investorsdirect.com.au/articles/what-lies-ahead.html
    http://investorsdirect.com.au/exclusive/how-to-find-value-in-any-real-estate-market.html
    http://investorsdirect.com.au/articles/big-australia-vs-small-australia.html

    MC & HNY!

    Mark

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
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    @jpcashflow
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    Hi Mark,

    Thanks for that little note. Very interesting!!

    I think one of the most difficult things  i have faced is that when i was living at my parents i was saving 90% of my income and buying property left right and center and felt pretty wealthy.

    I'm only 27 so i still have allot to learn but since i have moved out which has been two years know i have always felt that i have been the same and never actually increased my overall wealth.

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
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    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    Jpcashflow wrote:
    I'm only 27 so i still have allot to learn but since i have moved out which has been two years know i have always felt that i have been the same and never actually increased my overall wealth

    The last two years have also seen lending rules tighten signifciantly and property prices flatten (with a few exceptions)

    Anyone with a simple buy and hold strategy would probably experienced a similar situation to you in the same time frame.

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
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    @jpcashflow
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    Hi Derek,

    Thanks for the heads up

    Our overall debt situation is pretty good.

    Current Home Loan: $100,000 @ $640.00 per month in repayment.
    But Because we have a bussiness as well i think we dont take as much risk just in case the shop is  abit quiet.

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
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    Profile photo of DerekDerek
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    I would also add not increasing your wealth while it isn't as good as increasing your wealth is much better than reducing your wealth. On that note you should be reasonably happy – sometimes your situations causes teh handbrake to go on.

    Being a small business owner also throws a curve ball into the overall picture – many small businesses are doing it pretty tough at the moment. Your comments lead me to believe you are a careful manager of your finances – this appraoch will put you in a good position over time.

    Just remember 'A fool and his money are soon parted' – you don't seem to be foolish.

    Stick to what you are doing and understand it is not always onwards and upwards – sometimes you need to take a breath.

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
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    @jpcashflow
    Join Date: 2007
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    Hi Derek,

    You have read my thoughts and what i am going through like a book.

    I am pretty happy with what my wife and i have acheived but i am that  type of person that if i climbed one mountain i would need to climb another 2.

    Thanks Derek and speak soon

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
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    Your first port of call in finance :)

    Profile photo of gmh454gmh454
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    Your comment about the lack of urgency finally hitting the market is spot on.

    As long as the RE industry could create a "must buy now before it is too late", they actually always had a sellers market.
    Factor in Gumnuts stimulating tradies, and developers and economics, rational thinking, history all could be overlooked as the sentiment fuelled a "property cannot fail" mentality.

    A client who I had advised against buying an investment property in his SMSF 18 months ago, said to me last week … ït's only giving a 2.5% return !!!!, and has gone down 7.5% . !!!!!!

    Right now why rush into property, until you can see factors that convince you of a turn around.

    and as for you buddy "If you can just stand still while others are going backwards", you wind up in front

    Good luck

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
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    Thanks every one for the comments

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
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    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
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    gmh454 wrote:

    Right now why rush into property, until you can see factors that convince you of a turn around.

    Because then you've missed the boat.

    gmh454 wrote:

    and as for you buddy "If you can just stand still while others are going backwards", you wind up in front

    Good luck

    You may be ahead of the ones going backwards but you are not any further ahead than where you originally were. You can only get ahead by moving forwards.

    Profile photo of fredo_4305fredo_4305
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    Property goes in cycles and just doesn’t go up every single year. You probably bought the Hoppers property at a good price and sold it at a premium.

    There are also many many houses for sale in and around Hoppers Crossing ie Point Cook so you are up against tough competition.

    Hoppers and Deer Park aren’t really sought after areas so it will always struggle in a flat market compared to blue chip suburbs.

    Profile photo of Rory BreakerRory Breaker
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    I would tend to agree with "taking a breath" comment.  Although there is nothing wrong with wanting to achieve and climbing the next mountain.  Sometimes you need to let the weather clear before you can reach the sumit.

    I recently sold 7.5 arcres of land on the NE coast of Tassie (poor location) after trying to find a buyer sinse 2007.  The land sold under a lease option contract (vendor finance) and attracted no buyers for a straight forward sale.  The lengthy timeframe did not stop me from finding a solution, and in the meantime, I experienced first hand vendor financing.

    The father in-law once told me "it will work out" commenting on a personal situation at a point in time.  His comments came through his life experiences.  The personal situation did work out and now I carry the confidence knowing that lifes journey is unique…what ever the situation with the right attitude, it will work out.

    Enjoy.

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
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    Thats i what i love about this forum.

    Its amazing how every one has different views and all in a postive way.

    thanks all

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
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    Your first port of call in finance :)

    Profile photo of Anon_Anon_
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    I would be very cautious in buying properly over the next 6 months.

    Profile photo of CatalystCatalyst
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    Anon_ wrote:
    I would be very cautious in buying properly over the next 6 months.

     Why this 6 months in particular? And do you mean everywhere?

    While I think you should always be cautious and do your research, there's always somewhere that's at the bottom of the cycle. Just need to know where.

    I'd be interested in knowing your reason for the statement.

    mattnz
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    The market in the Western Suburbs of Melbourne has been very difficult. I just sold a property there, had it listed for over 6 months and had to chase the market down to clear it, by pricing it as the best buy in the suburb. I ended up selling for $100k less than my initial asking price, but it freed me up for my developments, which are far better investments.

    I still walked away with a profit and learned so much through the experience. Never try to pick the top of the market, by the time you see it, it is on its way down and extremely difficult to sell into. You are much better off selling at what could be a bit off the top, but still on the rise, when there is plenty of buyer demand.

    I think that Sydney in particular will experience similar to Melbourne in the low end markets coming up, when first home buyers have to start paying stamp duty. This will kill the sub $550k market, which is currently being held up by first homebuyers competing before the stamp duty kicks in.

    Profile photo of JpcashflowJpcashflow
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    @jpcashflow
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    Very interesting times!!!

    But i believe there is going to be so many opportunities that will present them selves.

    When prices decrease i think there will be more cash flow properties available.

    Also there are some goods sites presenting them selves with development oppurtunities.

    but will see

    cheers

    Jpcashflow | JP Financial Group
    http://www.jpfinancialgroup.com.au
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    Your first port of call in finance :)

    Profile photo of Nigel KibelNigel Kibel
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    I think that Liquidity will remain tight over the next 12 months especially with a declining Europe. However I also think that creates clear opportunities across Australia. We buy development sites and put investors into the deals to become developers. Because developers are struggling to get funding we will be able to fund projects. In many parts of Australia there are great deals to be done. So before you rush out to renovate or do a small project look at the options.

    Nigel Kibel | Property Know How
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    Profile photo of xdrewxdrew
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    I'm optimistic.

    I've seen our country weather the existing financial pressures better than most western countries. To answer that one incredibly easily all you need to do is look at our exports and exposures. We are incredibly exposed to the Asian countries in our neighbourhood and with a low exposure to western exports and western debt .. the upside for the 21st century is very much in our favour.

    If the banks lock up again and finance goes tight .. then the logical answer is for borrowers to RAISE their figure they are prepared to pay. In other words .. expect a rate hike to extract the existing money from the markets. And that would need to be filtered down to the consumer in one way or another.

    Money remains tight because we've had an existing inflationary rate on consumer goods of about 8-9% for the last 5 yrs at least and a broadcast inflationary rate allowing for depreciating IT goods reverted to around 2%. The rates may be low, but the buying power of money has also deteriorated. And as long as governments keep fudging the figures on that … the commuity will get poorer on dollars that buy less. That remains something to be concerned about.

    As far as purchasing property goes … i'm doing what anyone does in tougher times. Purchasing six month renovation jobs and tarting them up at minimal cost. Doing them together allows me to bargain for better prices on deals. Doing them together allows me to purchase tiles carpets ovens and kitchen kits in bulk .. reducing my overall expense sheet. And coming out the other side of a recession that is already starting to clear up .. they will be ready to sell in 6 months time. And if not for sale .. at reasonable rents for refurbished properties. Either way out of the deal its a win-win. Thats the only way I like to write my deals.

    The market is still there .. its still quite healthy. Its just not taking offers at the high end anymore. Properties are still selling. Its when you have a weekend with 20% sales you should be panicking. 20% means 80% of vendors dont know their prices and neither do their agents. And thats something to be worried about.

    To put it in the venacular you started this thread on .. the S#%t has hit the fan. The mess has been made. And they are just about finished cleaning it up. You have to get in before people realise that a nice cleaned fan is almost as good as a new one without any s#%t in the works.

    Profile photo of xdrewxdrew
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    Rory Breaker wrote:
    I recently sold 7.5 arcres of land on the NE coast of Tassie (poor location) after trying to find a buyer sinse 2007.  The land sold under a lease option contract (vendor finance) and attracted no buyers for a straight forward sale.  The lengthy timeframe did not stop me from finding a solution, and in the meantime, I experienced first hand vendor financing.
    Enjoy.

    This is a common mistake Rory and one you have to learn from experience. If the deal is out there .. its usually where there is existing demand. In other words there's gotta be the possibility of a buyer at the other end.

    Poor location DOES have a buyer. But at a poor location price. People just arent fighting over it like they might if it was CBD prime time location. And therefore it doesnt have the price.

    I've got an agent in Albury who wants me to buy a 3br WB in a reasonable location under  200k and subdivide the backyard. Its a deal .. there is money to be made in it. But there is absolutely NO demand for subdivided backyards .. or new townhouses or even OTP in that area. So despite there being a definitive deal there .. i'm not purchasing. I'm a lot happier doing things in up and coming areas where if not immediate demand .. there is pressure for further demand in the near future.

    For the record .. returns in Albury range from 6.5% to 7.8% gross on property. This does make them look attractive. But at the moment there are too few buyers and lots of property to choose from. In other words .. no pressure.

    following on that same path of thought ….

    gmh454 wrote:
    A client who I had advised against buying an investment property in his SMSF 18 months ago, said to me last week … ït's only giving a 2.5% return !!!!, and has gone down 7.5% . !!!!!!

    CONGRATULATIONS ! You have just had a client who has won the booby prize for property investing ! Invest in a solid area with a return that goes nowhere near being able to pay the interest leaving at least a 4% margin coming out of the pocket GROSS (yes guys that doesnt include the actual expenses). Pay top dollar for the property at the height of the market so you've got at least 2 to 3 years for the market to recover to a point where you'll be able to just break even on the deal .. all that lovely equity sitting there like a bank paying 0.2% interest on an account .. kinda pointless .. huh? And finally .. you are DEPENDANT on capital growth to fix any or all of these situations for you to save you from a fate worse than bad investing !

    I'm being harsh .. i'm being critical .. because at the end of the day its people who walk away burned from doing stupid deals like this that give property investing a bad name. They havent done their research .. they havent minimised their initial expenses and they certainly havent watched where the market actually was before they invested. Kinda like aiming for a dartboard blindfolded .. there remains a significant chance of you missing the dartboard entirely.

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