Townsville discussion thread

As a big believer that property in provincial cities performs in relation not only to the macroeconomic environment, but also in relation to the microeconomic environment unique to the individual city, I often find general property discussion a little too generic to adequately address the criteria affecting a market like Townsville, or Toowoomba.

I'm mostly interested in watching and waiting for the Townsville market, and thought I'd see if there were other posters on the forum who would like to contribute to a general discussion thread on the Townsville market.  We have been carefully watching the Townsville market for some time now, and detect a distinct change in real estate listings, and at times, their asking prices.

With increasing listings in the tightly held Rowes Bay area, increasing listings in duplex and small unit complexes, and an as always large number of entry level homes at slightly lower pricing, the question for us has arisen, when the time is right (not yet), do we buy into a quality area that we could not normally afford (Rowes Bay), or do we seize the opportunity to purchase some lower level housing units, knowing that immediate market recovery may be faster in the entry level market?

So, I'm trying to start a thread with other people who are similarly interested in the Townsville market, and who would like to bounce ideas etc with another investor who is watching the market closely, with great interest.

Cheers
S

There was a short commentry on Townsville in this month's Smart Investor - it basically just highlighted the main advantages of Townsville in general (no specific areas mentioned). It noted that there is an airbase (as well as an international airport), a university and has tourism as its three major attractions. Unlike many country towns which may only have one major industry eg mining, Townsville has several good prospects.

I.P. Freely - 'cause I can!

There was also a research paper prepared by PRD Nationwide on their website (middle of 2008).

I am opinionated. Take me at face value, read between the lines.

http://www.reao.com.au/forum/entry.php?80-How-bright-is-your-agent

We lived up in Townsville for a few years 10 yrs back.
We loved the place and always thought it was untapped where as most people were running it down back then.
Couldn't handle the damn heat though and really started missing our seasons .

Did I regret not buying up there though obviously, when you see where things have headed in this last 5 yrs . Always easy to say after the fact though !
Could have had any number of great houses at 70 or 80k a pop .

I'd be inclined to be really careful of anything QLD for atleast a few years now but especially up there .
As in true QLD fashion they all went so apesh't when they noticed the boom happening and it's looking more and more like a serious saturation in new everything but especially '" lots " and lots of housing.
It could end up well in excess and with things all over taking a serious dump anyway well .
Tourisim will also cut back , same with armed forces spending

I've also noticed most of QLD realestate for sale lists have doubled and trippled over the last year or two and the prices are also outrages , Townsville too with everything you've mentioned.

Me smelling big saturation - old Gold Coast days , many price drops and many left holding babies , for a very good stint .

Suburbs - none !

Cheers

PS , Another factor will be interstaters looking in their own backyard again now to as prices become more reasonable yet with QLD being dearer if anything these days so . Well apart from the mining areas that have been takjng off but all that could well wind back big time too so who knows .

SHales,
              I also lived in Townsville for a few years and hated the heat ( do you know there is a suburb in Townsville called Heatley ).
             But the winter is beautiful and the town is great, it would be perfect if it was over a 1000km south.

O yes, I have a house there and its rented ( my brother also ), we purchased back in early 1990 's I think, it costs about $90,000 back then and for over 10 years didn't go up. But now has jumped like a kangaroo.
It has good prospects and plenty of water ( too much at the moment ), just down the road is the Burdikan Dam that hold 4 times Sydney harbour with facilities to go to 20 times.
Rentals are excellent and reliable and its a nice drive to visit in winter and good for deductions. Everything in Townsville is close to the water and shopping etc is good, has about 120,000 people or so ( now combined with Thurangowra ). I think my spelling is off.
But watch out for tidal surge - South Townsville goes under water each king tide and with global warming well you know. Rowes Bay isn't so high either!!

Thanks all for your comments.  It seems that perhaps there isn't anyone on this forum at the moment who is actively involved in the Townsville market.  I flew to Townsville on Monday, stayed for Tuesday and flew out again today.  It is very wet there at the moment, as you may have seen on the news.  Glad I had a plane booked, as all the roads are cut, so I sure wasn't going to be driving.  a major bridge that I have to cross during the drive home was 6 metres under water yesterday.  I was surprised, though, how well the city's drainage seemed to be working in all but the well known trouble spots. My town ran out of bread yesterday.  We don't expect the road to open for another 3 days - and that's if that bridge is still there under all that water!  Best wet season I have ever seen.

I was just having a look through some old threads and came across this Townsville forum. I was wondering, SHales if you ended up buying in Townsville and if so where and for what reasons?

Jason,
We did not invest in Townsville, mainly because not being on the ground I found it very difficult to get a very good buy.  I still feel that the market is overpriced, and at least for me, does give sufficient ROI.  We have invested in cattle instead and enjoy a low debt positive cash flow position for the time being.  Another reason for not making an investment was due to our desire to move in the next few years and the fact that we did not want to tie up equity that we may have to access over the next few years.
If you'd like an opinion on any areas, if you don't know Townsville very well, I'd be happy to help.  Just reply on this thread if you want to contact me as I visit the forum rarely at the moment.
Goodluck
S

I am looking at investing in Townsville but am not too sure if I am on the right track. First time investor. I am considering Mount Louisa & Douglas. My preference is land & home package. My biggest concern is the vacancy rate. My research also shows that there is much housing development currentlt taking place in townsville. I am afraid this will lead to an oversupply of housing stock in townsville therby pushing down rentals & price growthand sending vacancy rates through thr ceiling.
Yes there is talk of an army battalion being relocated Townsville in 2012, the university, tourism and general adiminstration business. All this in my opinion is not strong enough to fuel growth and demand above the supply rate.
Are there any people out there who have any  experience with Townsville or some valuable information to share.

Tomara,
I live near Townsville and watch the market carefully.  I haven't purchased in Townsville because I am not satisfied with the ROI, even with multiple dwelling type properties.  I think Douglas in particular is a good choice. Mt Louisa is one of those suburbs with good streets and bad ones, so needs some careful research.  Another couple of suburbs to consider are Kirwan, Aitkenvale, Annandale and West End, all for different reasons.

Personally, I doubt we will see an oversupply in Townsville any time soon, in the housing market.   I feel that in the high end appartment market, we may see over supply before too long.  There is a phenomenal amount of development happening.

Some of the estates I have a strong distaste ,for, feeling that they really are the slums of tomorrow, which is why I prefer slightly larger blocks in older urban areas because of their future development potential, as well as the fact the buildings have allready significantly depreciated.  Douglas is a new area, but tends to be slighlty higher end than some of the others, and has a particularly good location close to the hospital, university and army base, and a main arterial road.

Good luck
S

Thanks Hales. I do agree with you to a great extent. The rate  of return on investment in townsville doesnt look appealling.

I am not considering the appartment market. Irregardless, I am still of the opinion that there is countless numer of housing estates being developed along and aroud the Bruce Highway all the way from Mount Louisa to Bushland Beach. Same applies on the Douglas/Kelso side of town.

I have a block on hold in Montana Estate, Mt Louisa. I have to make a decision on it before April. Price Range $380k-$450k. As my first investment, I was  hoping to go land & house package, with the hope of making a saving on the Land Tax and depreciation. Thats the reason why I ended up ignoring Kirwan, Aitkenvale etc.

I will be visiting Townsville in a week' s time. Unless someone convinces me otherwise, I will resort back to my initial focal area, thus the Norther Suburbs of Brisbane, between Gympie arterial road and the Bypass. Thats around Bracken Ridge. I am of the opinion that I will get better returns down there.

I agree you are likely to get better returns near Brisbane, and possibly better capital growth too.  I would spend down there before Townsville myself.  TSV offers opportunity for those willing to value add the investment, or who are positioned to  buy particularly well.  For people located outside of TSV, it alot harder to find an attractive investment. 

Brisbane offers some excellent value at the moment.

I believe that the new estates in the Mt Louisa area are pretty good (ie, not slum like, but higher end). 

My strategy doesn't include chasing losses to create a tax deduction and make the investment cheaper.  I'm more focussed on just finding what I think will be the highest returning investment.  This is why I have my money in cattle at the moment, and I'm about to buy a truck. 

S

I am happy to hear that you are content with the things are going in your cattle venture, and congrats on the truck.

Brisbane was the are I was looking at until this broker came to me with all these estates sprouting in Townsville. And I will admit they look appealing. Land in Townsville is going at a song compared to Brisbane. Unfortunately I failed to realise any robustness in the TVL market. Brisbane is undoubtedly where the action is. I wouldn't mind considering TVL for a second property.

Do you know BNE very well yourself? What areas would you recommend? My budget is around 380-420K. Not many people on this forum talk about QLD. there is more focus on Victoria and NSW. Would yo be able to recommend any forum or site I can look at ref. Brisbane.

What do you think of places like Gladstone, Bowen, Chinchilla? I am trying to stay away from areas which rely on one particular project or industry.

Once again thanks for your time and willingness to share your knowledge.

"Thousands of candles can be lit from a single candle, and the life of the candle will not be shortened.
There is no delight in owning anything unshared"

HI,
No, I don't know BNE at all really.  Gladstone, Bowen and Chinchilla could all represent opportunities, but they are all very much tied to the mining boom.  If you are looking for multi industry type towns, these are not really them.  While they do all have other industries, the mining has created additional housing in these areas which would be surplus if the mining shut down.  Townsville is more secure, in my opinion, than any of these towns, but it would be possible to make a quick buck in the towns you mention, or possibly even find something to positively gear. 

I can't direct you towards any other forums, sorry.  This is the only one I visit.

Good luck with your search.

S